tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11958453730573986112024-02-19T06:52:13.035-08:00WARNING: Jesus Culture 2013 || CA | WA | Portland | BC || Another Christ & a Different Gospel"the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons….In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following." ~ 1 Timothy 4:1, 6Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comBlogger154125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-52579864688149689792013-02-23T01:17:00.001-08:002017-09-27T21:40:33.261-07:00Warning: Jesus Culture Cult - Cult Education Forum<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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Bill Johnson, the Bethel Cult in Redding California</span></h2>
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<span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: "verdana" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">The warnings for this church group should raise red flags </span><span style="font-family: "verdana" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">for anyone involved with this movement! </span></span><br />
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: "verdana" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">The theology promoted by Bill Johnson (Senior Pastor at Bethel), along with teachers like Kris Vallotton, is what should be raising red flags for Bethel Church members and anyone looking at this group!</span><br />
<span style="background-color: white; font-family: "verdana" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">What these men teach is a far cry from orthodox Christianity. </span><span style="background-color: white; font-family: "verdana" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">This movement falls more in line with the "Word Faith," "Signs & Wonders," New Age Mysticism, Hypnotherapy, and the "Prosperity Gospel" movements. These teachers are embracing such teachings as:<br /> </span><br />
<span style="background-color: white; font-family: "verdana" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">1. The demotion of God and the deification of man. </span><br />
<span style="background-color: white; font-family: "verdana" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">2. One can become a god, heal one's self and others. </span><br />
<span style="background-color: white; font-family: "verdana" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">3. Johnson teaches that Jesus was simply a man Who was somehow spiritually connected to God. </span><br />
<span style="background-color: white; font-family: "verdana" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">3. Jesus became sinful and had to be born again. </span><br />
<span style="background-color: white; font-family: "verdana" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">4. That Jesus went to hell. </span><br />
<span style="background-color: white; font-family: "verdana" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">5. Bethel's association with the New Apostolic Reformation embraces the many false teachings coming from this group, such as its modern Gnosticism. These include the teachings of the "Latter Rain", with self-appointed prophets like Bob Jones. Mr. Jones is reported to have had women come into his office and disrobe in front of him in order to get a supposed word from God. </span><br />
<span style="background-color: white; font-family: "verdana" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">6. A failure to heal is caused by a lack of faith. </span><br />
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: "verdana" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">This news from Bethel in 2010 should raise even more concerns: </span><br />
<span style="background-color: white;"><br /></span><span style="background-color: white; border: 0px; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">"Rather than call police when their drinking partner fell — or was pushed — off a nearly 200-foot cliff, two students at a Redding Bible school tried first to reach the severely wounded man and pray him back to life, a lawsuit alleges<span style="color: navy;">."</span></span></span><span style="background-color: white;"> (<a href="http://www.apologeticsindex.org/1399-bill-johnson" target="_blank">Source) </a></span><br />
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: "verdana" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">"Angel feathers,"' "diamonds," and "gold dust" have also been reported to appear suddenly in services. </span><br />
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<span style="background-color: white; line-height: 18px;"><span style="font-family: "verdana" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">When "angel feathers" first started to fall at Bethel Church, Bill Johnson thought birds had nested in the air conditioning ducts, he said. </span><a href="http://www.apologeticsindex.org/1399-bill-johnson" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">(Source)</span></a></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: "verdana" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">Bill Johnson responded apathetically to the </span><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcPkOR4Lwj0" style="color: #c04830; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">gold glitter cloud</a><span style="font-family: "verdana" , "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; line-height: 18px;"> that appeared at Bethel in 2009. Yet he deemed it a manifestation of the glory of the Lord. </span></span><br />
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<a href="http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,116186,116186" style="background-color: white;" target="_blank">(Source)</a></div>
Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-43895840336739903932013-02-23T01:13:00.001-08:002013-02-23T01:13:16.773-08:00Jesus Culture's Dangerous Denial of Christ<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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Q&A: Bill Johnson & Bethel Church in Redding</h1>
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The Berean Call</h5>
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August 2012</h5>
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<strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Question: I don’t understand why Bill Johnson and Bethel Church in Redding are not classified as a cult (along with Word-Faith). They deny the deity of Christ, they deny the Scriptures and add to and subtract from them, their schools of ministry are lessons in how to operate in the occult and demonology (I was shocked when a friend told me what techniques they used). They are false teachers and wolves in sheep’s clothing. What do you think?</strong></div>
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<strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Response:</strong> Bill and Brenda Johnson are the Senior Pastors of Bethel Church in Redding, California. Bethel Church is firmly aligned with the Word-Faith movement and identifies with the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), or the Third Wave Movement with its “prophets,” “apostles,” and alleged manifestions. Bill Johnson is called an “apostle” by C. Peter Wagner (See <em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"> </em><em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">TBC</em> 5/97, 2/07). His theology has amounted to what some call a “<em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"> </em><em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">de facto</em> denial of the deity of Christ.”</div>
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By this, they are referring to Johnson’s teaching that Christ set aside His deity during His earthly sojourn. Johnson has said, “Jesus was (and is) God. Eternally God. That never changed. But He chose to live with self-imposed restriction while living on earth in the flesh—as a man. In doing so, He defeated sin, temptation, the powers of darkness as a man. We inherit His victory—it was for us. He never sinned!” (Bill Johnson, Facebook 3/21/2011).</div>
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If Johnson had stopped at this point, his view of Christ would seem to be biblical—but he didn’t.</div>
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Consequently, that’s not all that he’s taught or all that his followers have said. Speaking of Jesus, Johnson wrote, “He performed <em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"> </em><em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">miracles</em> , <em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">wonders</em> , <em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"> </em><em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">and</em> <em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"> </em><em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">signs</em> , as a man in right relationship to God…not as God. If He performed miracles because He was God, then they would be unattainable for us” (Johnson, <em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"> </em><em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">When Heaven Invades Earth</em> , p. 29). That’s human reasoning, and by implication opens the way for a deification of man.</div>
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Johnson’s view of our Lord’s “emptying Himself,” of which the literal meaning is “humbled himself” (Philippians 2:7), aligns very well with the Latter Rain/Word-Faith “little gods” teaching of Kenneth Copeland and others. Johnson has gone on to say, <em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"> </em><em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">“God gave every believer the power to heal as Jesus did” </em> (Johnson, “You’ve Got the Power,”<em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"> </em><em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"> Charisma Online</em> , March 2012). In line with Word-Faith teaching, Johnson and his followers speak of these presumed abilities in a way that sounds very much like mind science and departs from Scripture.</div>
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Though differing from Jehovah’s Witnesses, who deny the deity of Jesus, Johnson’s view of Christ is confusing at best, and he endangers his followers by leading them away from the security of the Word.</div>
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Johnson writes, “Those who feel safe because of their intellectual grasp of Scriptures enjoy a false sense of security. None of us has a full grasp of Scripture, but we all have the Holy Spirit. He is our common denominator who will always lead us into truth. But to follow Him, we must be willing to follow off the map—to go beyond what we know” (Johnson, <em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"> </em><em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">When Heaven,</em> p. 76).</div>
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In conclusion, Johnson is advocating extrabiblical revelation. Going “off the map” is forsaking the safety and sufficiency of Scripture.</div>
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This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. (<strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Joshua:1:8</strong>)</div>
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The human tendency is to focus on experience, which then can lead to a number of problems. The charismatic movement is full of examples of people who did not “prove all things” (<strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">1 Thessalonians:5:21</strong>), and it eventually led to pride, an attitude of superiority, imitating and covetousness by followers, and ministries full of error and imbalance. The works of God are indeed splendid<em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"> </em><em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"> and hand tailored</em> , but how we handle them must glorify Him and Him alone. <a href="http://www.christianresearchservice.com/qa-bill-johnson-bethel-church-in-redding/" target="_blank">Source</a></div>
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Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-30769529471969393592013-01-15T23:37:00.005-08:002013-01-15T23:43:46.432-08:00Jesus Culture is More Dangerous than Abortion<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<span style="font-size: large;">"This is a far more important issue than even abortion...These are false prophets who are ushering people into hell.." (Phil Johnson, Executive Director, Grace to You radio program). </span><br />
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Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-30554898270884289582013-01-15T00:57:00.000-08:002013-02-23T00:44:03.037-08:00Jesus Culture, Youth Stadiums, and the Latter Rain Heresy<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><b><span style="font-size: x-small;">Reprinted entirely from the article, <a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">Revisiting the Old Latter Rain Prophecy in Light of Current Events</a></span></b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="color: #4c1130;">"August 3-5, 2011... I believe God is going to release an <b>awakening</b> on a<b>new breed</b> of healing revivalists who will be anointed, activated and sent back into their campuses and cities. And we will see an uncontainable fire once again come out of Chicago only this time it will '<b>ignite a generation </b>that will change the world'. See You There." </span><br />Banning Liebscher, Jesus Culture Director </span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="color: #660000;">"Let's believe that <b>stadiums</b> will be filled with signs and wonders.... And<b>stadiums are going to be filled</b>. We are entering into the days of the<b>great awakening</b>. And I believe <b>Jesus Culture is carrying the mantle for stadium Christianity and signs and wonders....</b> [T]o release the greatest Jesus Movement....</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Lou Engle[1]</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><b>L</b></span><b style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">ou Giglio</b><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> is scheduled to give the benediction</span><b style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">*</b><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> at the Obama Presidential Inauguration on January 21. The official announcement describes him as "the Rev. Louie Giglio, the pastor of the Passion City Church in Atlanta" and says he "is considered one of the highest-profile evangelical Christian pastors. He has been prominent in efforts to end human trafficking."</span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">[1] </span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">This invitation is significant because Lou Giglio is currently under a great deal of fire in some quadrants of the evangelical world for his controversial association with New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) leader Bill Johnson and a music group/ministry called Jesus Culture.</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #073763; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Bill and Brenda Johnson are the Senior Pastors of Bethel Church in Redding, California. Bethel Church is firmly aligned with the Word-Faith movement and identifies with the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), or the Third Wave Movement with its “prophets,” “apostles,” and alleged manifestions. Bill Johnson is called an “apostle” by C. Peter Wagner (See TBC 5/97, 2/07). His theology has amounted to what some call a “ de facto denial of the deity of Christ.”</span></span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">[2]</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">At issue is the fact that Johnson's Bethel Church spawned Jesus Culture, described as "not just a band, but a ministry to ignite revival in the nations of the earth."</span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">[3]</span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> This </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2010/08/great-outpouring-of-wealth.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">end-time revival</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> is a key doctrine of the </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2011/09/documenting-dominionism.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">New Apostolic Reformation</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">. According to an Apprising Ministries report </span><a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/02/louie-giglio-passion-2013-and-jesus-culture/" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">"LOUIE GIGLIO, PASSION 2013, AND JESUS CULTURE,"</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> this Jesus Culture band was featured in Lou Giglio's Passion2013 event. A previous Jesus Culture event called Awakening 2011 "was put on by the Jesus Culture ministry itself" and was billed as "IGNITING A GENERATION OF REVIVALISTS FROM AROUND THE NATION TO CHANGE THE WORLD." Key speakers included well-known NAR leaders </span><a href="http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/12/8/162939/009" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">Reinhard Bonnke</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">, </span><a href="http://apprising.org/2012/09/14/todd-bentley-bring-the-power-not-the-gospel/" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">Bill Johnson</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">, </span><a href="http://apprising.org/2012/11/09/nephy-lim-with-first-live-transmission-of-a-genuine-nephilim/" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">Lou Engle</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> and </span><a href="http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/god-miraculously-made-pair-cindy-jacobs-shoes-last-years" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">Cindy Jacobs</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">, among others.</span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">[4]</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">The significance of all of this is described in a series of in-depth reports published by Apprising Ministries. Lou Giglio has a widespread outreach and appeal to mainstream evangelicals, and his Passion2013 event, held at the Georgia Dome on January 1-4, included "Beth Moore, John Piper, Francis Chan, rapper Lecrae... and pastor </span><a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/09/passion-2013-speaker-judah-smith-sings-taylor-swift-and-talks-sex/" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">Judah Smith</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> of of The City Church in Seattle and popular Christian band, Jesus Culture."</span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">[5]</span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> To read more, and view the documentary evidence and recordings, see the following reports:</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/01/jesus-culture-and-judah-smith-to-join-piper-moore-chan-and-others-at-giglios-passion-2013/" style="color: #666666;">JESUS CULTURE AND JUDAH SMITH TO JOIN PIPER, MOORE, CHAN AND OTHERS AT GIGLIO’S PASSION 2013</a> </span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/08/louie-giglio-twists-ezekiel-37-at-passion-2013/" style="color: #666666;">LOUIE GIGLIO TWISTS EZEKIEL 37 AT PASSION 2013</a><br /><a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/04/friends-of-bethel-church-home-of-jesus-culture/" style="color: #666666;">FRIENDS OF BETHEL CHURCH, HOME OF JESUS CULTURE</a><br /><a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/03/jesus-culture-of-bethel-church-and-practicing-raising-the-dead/" style="color: #666666;">JESUS CULTURE—OF BETHEL CHURCH—AND PRACTICING RAISING THE DEAD</a><br /><a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/03/jesus-culture-you-sure-its-the-real-jesus/" style="color: #666666;">JESUS CULTURE—YOU SURE IT’S THE REAL JESUS?</a></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/06/an-invasion-of-error-review-of-when-heaven-invades-earth-by-bill-johnson/" style="color: #666666;">AN INVASION OF ERROR—REVIEW OF WHEN HEAVEN INVADES EARTH BY BILL JOHNSON</a></span><br />
<a href="http://apprising.org/2012/09/21/beth-moore-and-john-piper-set-for-passion-2013-with-louis-giglio/" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;">BETH MOORE AND JOHN PIPER SET FOR PASSION 2013 WITH LOUIE GIGLIO</span></a><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">Of particular concern is the open association of these evangelical leaders such as Lou Giglio, </span><a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/08/the-book-of-beth-moore-thus-saith-the-lord-cessationism-cheats-the-believer-and-under-cuts-hope/" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">Beth Moore</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> and</span><a href="http://solasisters.blogspot.com/2013/01/has-john-piper-lost-his-mind.html?m=1" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> John Piper </a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">with controversial elements of the </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2011/07/ihop-nar.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">New Apostolic Reformation</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">.</span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">[6]</span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> We have been warning for a long time about the desire of the </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2011/08/c-peter-wagner-spins-nar.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">false apostles and prophets of the NAR</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> and IHOP to mainstream themselves both into the church and </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2011/07/ihop-international-house-of-political.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">American politics</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">. The leadership hopes to </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2010/04/coalescing-of-christian-right-with.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">gain legitimacy and credibility</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> by piggybacking themselves onto credible-sounding causes and naive, gullible and/or like-minded evangelical mainstream leaders and groups. The question must be asked: Does Lou Giglio share Bill Johnson's beliefs about the endtimes, which dovetail with the heretical teachings of the NAR and </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2011/07/ihop-enters-dominionchristian-right.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">IHOP</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">?</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #073763; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Johnson believes that there will be a great end-time revival that will be initiated by an <b>“Elijah generation”</b> (a concept from the heretical Latter Rain movement) that shall transcend all other <b>generations</b> of Christians in regard to their ability to do great works of power. Johnson claims the following about himself and associates: “We will carry the Elijah anointing in preparing for the return of the Lord in the same way that John the Baptist carried the Elijah anointing and prepared the people for the coming of the Lord” (Johnson: 184).</span></span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #073763; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Supposedly these elitists will set off a <b>great revival of signs and wonders</b>greater than those of Jesus. This miracle explosion, they expect, will cause a great revival before the return of Christ. Johnson states, “I live for the revival that is unfolding and believe it will surpass all previous moves combined, bringing more than <b>one billion souls</b> into the Kingdom” (Johnson: 23).<span style="color: black;">[7] [emphases added]</span></span></span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">Johnson's church birthed the Jesus Culture phenomenon in 1999. Jesus Culture has described itself in Latter Rain cult terms: "A few years into hosting conferences at Redding [CA], the Lord began to speak to us about a </span><b style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">new breed</b><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> of revivalists that were emerging throughout the earth in answer to the cry of God's yearning for nations." This call for nations was described in </span><a href="http://apprising.org/2011/01/26/what-is-dominionism/" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">Dominionist</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> terms, "Our mandate was defined: to raise up, mobilize, equip, encourage, resource, and send these burning ones to fulfill the call of God on their lives, and see entire cities saved, campuses revolutionized, and nations discipled." This "mandate" would include the typical NAR/IHOP essentials of</span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2008/05/mike-bickles-gigolo-jesus.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">"passion,"</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2011/07/prayer-warfare-evangelism.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">spiritual warfare</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> and walking "in the supernatural." Calling themselves a "</span><b style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">new breed</b><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> of revivalists" (also a Latter Rain term), they "began taking Jesus Culture conferences to different regions" in order to "ignite revival in the nations of the earth."</span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">[8] [all emphases added]</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #660000; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><b>Lou Giglio & Lou Engle - Two Peas In A Pod? </b></span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><b>P</b></span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">arents and grandparents, as well as pastors and church youth leaders across the evangelical world, seem </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2012/09/getting-high-on-god.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">very excited </a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">about youth going to these </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2012/09/getting-higher-on-god.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">youth revival events</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">. </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2012/09/be-still.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">Ostensibly these events</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> are supposed to help young people affirm or reaffirm a commitment of faith. But is that what these events are really all about?</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">Both Lou Giglio and Lou Engle head up frenzied youth movements filled with excessive "passion" and </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2011/04/altered-states-different-gate.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">mood-altering music </a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">at popular, packed stadium events. But do they teach the full Gospel of Salvation? There have been many similarities between the two over the years, but with Lou Giglio's open association with Jesus Culture which Lou Engle endorsed as the new "mantle," the questions can now be asked: Are they working together in similar alignment? Do they share the same endtime goals and beliefs? Lou Engle's prophecy (at the top of this post) links Jesus Culture to endtime prophecies that have been circulating in the Latter Rain movement since the late 1980s about a</span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2006/05/military-new-breed.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">New Breed of youth</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">, which is an "elect seed" that will fill stadiums. These prophecies were delivered by the Kansas City Prophets (now known as the IHOP movement headed by Mike Bickle). Lou Engle, as</span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2008/07/gods-dream.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">we have reported previously</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">, and his ministry TheCall and other groups, has been at the forefront of trying to </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2006/02/new-breed-and-incarnating-christ.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">make these prophecies come true</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">.</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">One of the common denominators between the two men is the call for "justice" or "social justice," which has a </span><a href="http://books.google.com/books/about/Building_the_Kingdom_of_God_on_Earth.html?id=5XLQHAAACAAJ" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">definition rooted</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> in the old</span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2006/07/pseudo-mission-how-camel-got-its-nose.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">Social Gospel</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> movement of the </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2006/04/new-order-of-kingdom.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">early 20th century</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">. For instance, Lou Engle held an event on the Washington Mall on August 16, 2008 called "God Has A Dream." We wrote at the time:</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #4c1130; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">To get a sense of the extraordinary nature of this upcoming “God’s Dream” event, check out “The Vision” posted at TheCall Institute, which is to “equip, disciple and commission an emerging generation of radical Nazirites to prepare the way of the Lord by embracing a lifestyle of prayer and fasting that is energized by intimacy with Jesus…. [A] <b>new breed</b> of young men and women….” [emphasis added]<br /><br />A highly disturbing video posted at TheCall’s website describes the extreme nature of this youth movement, and states that “those who come will be <b>marked</b> forever and they will be history-makers and dreamers of God's dream.” <b>Notice the young men and women in this brownish-greyish video have marks on their foreheads.</b><br /><br />A similarly disturbing video is posted at The Luke 18 Project which is interconnected with TheCall. It states that 10,000 apostolic young men and women, by their radical lifestyle of prayer and fasting, and in conjunction with the fulfillment of a “dream of launching <b>massive solemn assemblies</b> of fasting and prayer” will “<b>release justice</b> over the earth” and start prayer cells (called “prayer FURNACES”) that “will transform cities, finish the task of the Great Commission and <b>prepare a way for Jesus to return to the planet to establish his kingdom</b> forever and ever....” The context for much of this activity is through food deprivation (fasting) in conjunction with a hypnotic-like fervor of mass prayer rallies — "<b>filled stadiums and arenas</b>."</span></span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">[9][emphases added]</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">The Latter Rain prophecies about the necessity of a </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2011/07/ihops-new-breed-leaders.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">NEW BREED</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> of youth for an endtime revival were given by Kansas City Prophets </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2012/11/12-12-12.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">Bob Jones</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">, </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2008/09/ihop-latter-rain.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">Mike Bickle</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> and </span><a href="http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/orrel19.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">Paul Cain</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> in the late 1980s. Bob Jones, in a conversation with Mike Bickle, described a vision in which he saw "</span><b style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">elected seeds</b><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">" that would be an "</span><b style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">end generation</b><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">" that would be "</span><b style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">predestined to inherit all things</b><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">." He claimed they would "set the church on the proper foundations.... They’ll birth the church.... be the leaders of the last day church.... [and be] the best of all the generations." He claimed they would "move into things of the supernatural" to the point where they would actually "put </span><b style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">death</b><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> itself underneath their feet." (Note: this prophecy is significant in light of Bill Johnson's Bethel Church and reports of its </span><a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/03/jesus-culture-of-bethel-church-and-practicing-raising-the-dead/" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">attempts to raise the dead</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">.)</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">This </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2006/02/emergent-new-breed-leaders.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><b>New Breed</b></a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> would be a "</span><b style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">warfare</b><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">" generation that would "take the promised land" and "possess it." In a sense of pure Gnostic heresy, Bob Jones claimed that this </span><b style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">New Breed</b><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> generation would reach the "full maturity of the </span><b style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">God-Man</b><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">!" He reiterated that this generation would be "</span><b style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">coming into that divine nature of Jesus Christ</b><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">."</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">Mike Bickle replied that this "</span><b style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">end-time army</b><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">" would have "</span><b style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">300,000 enlistment notices</b><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">" for the "</span><b style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">next generation</b><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">." This "</span><b style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">300,000... would be the main leadership over one billion converts in the earth</b><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">" and they would "bear a distinct anointing." This </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2011/12/spiritual-warfare-eschatology.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">army generation</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> was referred to in racial terms as "the best of every </span><b style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">blood line </b><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">in the earth" and "superior" to every other "seed" on earth. Bickle explained that there would be a "time of war and transitioning of whole new orders in the body."</span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">[10] </span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">These Latter Rain leaders teach that their New Breed of Elect Seeds will be an endtime </span><b style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">Joel's Army</b><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">. For example, Rick Joyner, another Latter Rain teacher, has stated:</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="color: #073763;">There will be a <b>special anointing</b> released for <b>mobilizing the army of the Lord</b>.... There will be an impartation of strategic vision... to boldly march against the greatest strongholds of our time... This <b>army</b> of which <b>Joel</b>speaks is about to be revealed.... <b>They will take cities. They will burst through the enemy's strongholds and take houses (families).</b> The very heavens and the earth are about to shake because of this great<b> army</b>... the time has come.</span></span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">[11][emphases added] </span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #660000; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><b><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">THE SIGNIFICANCE OF FILLED STADIUMS</span></b></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><b>T</b></span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">here is another key Latter Rain prophecy regarding the rise of their New Breed youth movement -- that of filled stadiums. In 1996, researcher Ed Tarkowski wrote a report about the Promise Keepers phenomenon,</span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">[12]</span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> which was a movement that was said (at that time) to be the fulfillment of the original Kansas City Prophets prophecies about filling stadiums. But, as can be seen from the quotes at the top of this post, these prophecies are now being applied to both the Lou Giglio and Lou Engle youth movements. Below are some key excerpts from this Tarkowski report: </span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">In a Grace Ministries ["Kansas City Prophets," ed.] tape, November 1988 called, “My Father’s House,” Kansas City Vineyard Pastor, Paul Cain, expresses this eschatological view:</span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;"><br /><span style="color: #351c75;">I don’t know what the second coming is to you, ...but let me tell you he’s coming to you, he’s coming to his Church, he’s coming to abide in you, to take up his abode in you... I want you to know he’s coming <b>to</b> the Church before he comes <b>for</b> the Church. He’s gonna perfect the Church so the Church can be the Image, <b>be Him</b>, and be his representation.</span><br /> </span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;">In this talk, Cain defended himself that he wasn’t denying the rapture, but spoke of Jesus coming again to indwell His Church as a corporate body where the whole body experiences Him all at the same time. This is Latter Rain doctrine. Allegorical Pentecost to the Latter Rain adherent is a coming of God to the individual — it is a personal experience. To them, the allegorical Feast of Tabernacles is celebrated when God comes to the entire Church and fills it with the manifest Glory of God. Cain told his audience,<br /> </span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #351c75; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;">We are not just looking for glory in God, we want God to be glorified in us. Oh, let God be glorified in us, let this be your intent. Everybody in this room tonight that has the intent to follow through and act accordingly, the Lord says I will truly visit you, and I will make this real to you. The Lord will commit himself to you.</span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;"><br />Then he tells us how to follow through and act accordingly so this glory will be made real to the Church before Christ returns.</span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;"><br /><span style="color: #351c75;">Just dump all that stuff, just dump all that carnal knowledge, and dump some of the stuff we have learned through the years.</span><br /> </span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;">Is he saying dump your doctrine and your hope and go for this unbiblical experience? Tricia Tillin of Banner Ministries in England has noted these peculiar doctrines:<br /> </span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #351c75; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;">The Glory, in the Latter Rain understanding, is the visible manifestation of the Spirit. Now, in light of the satanic nature of this deception, it is not surprising that deceived Christians are being led to expect a <b>manifested spirit</b> and not the visible return of the Lord Jesus. I believe the way we are headed is into teaching about the return of the `lord` to his church, in glory, before (or perhaps even instead of?) the physical return of Jesus.</span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;"><br />This doctrine, once declared a heresy, is finding a place in all denominations through the unity of charismatics with other faiths. Cain says out of this unity will come an army, Joel’s Army, a Latter Rain belief based on the book of Joel:</span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;"><br /><span style="color: #351c75;">I told you about ...this recurring [35 year-old] vision I had...The angel of the Lord said, `You’re standing at the crossroads of life. What do you see?’ And I saw a brilliantly lit billboard which reads, <b>`Joel’s Army now in training.’</b> ...I believe one day soon Joel’s Army will be in training ...until it graduates into the <b>stadium</b> ...But a right understanding of the plan of God for <b>this generation</b> brings this tremendous inclusion... God’s offering to you, <b>this present generation</b>, a greater privilege than was ever offered any generation at any time from Adam clear down through the millennium.</span></span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;"><br />Paul Cain claimed this was the plan of God for this generation — everybody — all denominations — because it is the plan of God for the “last of the last days.” On a Grace Ministries tape of a talk given by Cain some years ago in Missouri, he told his audience,<br /><br /><span style="color: #351c75;">I had a vision of you people coming from ...a circle of maybe a hundred miles and I saw people coming from <b>every major city</b> within that circumference and a <b>great conclave</b> was taking place, and it was the <b>training of Joel’s Army</b>.... I believe that people are going to<b>come together by the thousands and train for the Army of the Lord.</b> Wouldn’t that be wonderful? I mean, that’s long overdue.</span><br /> </span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;">When enough pastors and other leaders are trained, for the Army of the Lord, he expects the greatest revival of all time to result. During his talk in Missouri, Cain described his vision for this endtime revival:</span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;"></span></span><br style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;" />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;"><br /><span style="color: #351c75;">All of the <b>stadiums</b> and all of the ballparks are <b>filled with hundreds of thousands of people</b>. They have hearses lined up, ambulances lined up. They have hundreds of stretcher cases and all that. And there are men standing there in the pulpit, there are women standing there that haven’t had a change of raiment in three days, they haven’t had a drink of water, they haven’t had any food and they’re preaching under the mighty power. “Why, did you see that last night on ABC? Did you see that man levitated? Did you see all those preachers levitated? Did you see that fixed pose? They stood there for 24 hours in a fixed pose, worshiping and praising God, and hundreds of thousands came by and fell on their face and nobody pushed them. And nobody shoved them. They fell under the power of God.” And everybody everywhere is crying, “Oh, this is God! Jesus is Lord!” It seems like the whole world is turning to God.</span><br /> </span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;">[In the 1990s], Cain spoke at Christ Chapel in Florence, Alabama, and shared a dream he’d received when he was 19 years old. Again, the emphasis was on huge numbers of people in stadiums:</span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;"><br /><span style="color: #351c75;">I had a dream that became a recurring dream, and it was about all the <b>stadiums </b>— and we’ve told this hundreds and hundreds of times all across America, all over the world, in fact — and I saw these <b>stadiums</b> and football fields, soccer fields and sports arenas, all of them<b>filled with thousands of people</b>, sometimes over <b>100,000</b> in each place. (August 30, 1995, evening session)</span></span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;"><br />In the Alabama meeting Cain connected his prediction of stadiums-full of soldiers in his Army of the Lord with the reality of stadiums-full of warriors in the Promise Keepers army. He said,</span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;"><br /><span style="color: #351c75;">We call it “the last days ministry,” ...I believe we’re on the threshold of it...And I know <b>the Lord is coming to His Church</b> and he’s going to prepare us.... We’re closer to it than we’ve ever been before. Who would think that there would be a group like Promise Keepers who’d already be setting the stage and filling stadiums with tens of thousands of people, ...They’ll be over <b>100,000</b> in no time, and maybe they already are. I think an event’s already planned that way. So, what if God shows up at just one of those meetings? That could just be the kick-off for “last days ministry.” Think about that... <b>What if 120,000 get together and then the fire comes from heaven and the glory of God</b>...?</span><br /> </span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;">...Cain said we are on the threshold of God’s glory possibly coming upon 100,000 pastors.... When you read this in conjunction with Latter Rain proponent Francis Frangipane’s new book, <i>The Days of His Presence</i>, there is reason for concern. Is Promise Keepers the catalyst for the anticipated Latter Rain “revival”? In a write-up on the book, Frangipane himself says,</span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;"><br /><span style="color: #351c75;">The Spirit of the Lord is moving on so many fronts. In just the past ten months we have seen racial reconciliations take place among Southern Baptists in Atlanta; in Memphis, leaders from Pentecostal denominations, once divided along racial lines, are now reunited, while white Evangelical leaders repented with blacks in Chicago. We can truly say the Lord is moving mightily on his people. Mix in the March for Jesus and the 750,000 Promise Keepers, and we are seeing the stage set for what I believe will be the greatest awakening of this century. </span></span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;"><br />March for Jesus drew 20,000,000.... Promise Keepers [drew] 750,000. That adds up to 20,750,000 Christians, and Frangipane is saying that this multitude will set the stage for revival.... Frangipane describes this next great awakening in his book:</span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;"><br /><span style="color: #351c75;">This book chronicles the vision the Lord gave me in 1971.... The Holy Spirit revealed the baptism of glory that the Father has prepared for the end of the age.<br /> </span></span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #351c75; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;">Prior to Jesus Christ’s physical return, His living presence will companion the church in ever increasing power. During this time the visible glory of the Lord will rise and appear upon God’s people.</span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #20124d; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;"><br />Notice this: God’s visible glory will rise and appear on His people prior to Jesus’ return. This is new revelation — it’s Latter Rain teaching, and Frangipane [claimed] 20,750,000 members of Christ’s body [were] being prepared to have the visible glory of God come on them! This prophetic word says that the Church will be glorified and changed to be like Christ Jesus our Lord — not when we see Him face to face, but when we reconcile our differences. This appears to be the goal of the ecumenical unity movement. Jesus can’t come back until everybody agrees and gets along....</span></span><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;"><br /></span></span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"></span>
<b style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="color: #660000;">Conclusion </span></span></b><br />
<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><b>I</b></span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">n conclusion, there are growing concerns about </span><a href="http://268generation.com/passion2013/freedom/" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">Lou Giglio</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">, who is going very public this month with his high profile benediction at Obama's inauguration ceremony. Unfortunately this pastor will represent the </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2007/07/gospel-coalitions-hodge-podge.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">new face of evangelicaldom</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> -- exhibiting an evangelical world that has </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2011/06/gospel-of-self_04.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">lost its Gospel moorings</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> and is now involved in </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2006/12/emergent-social-gospel.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">Social Gospel</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> </span><a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2006/12/emergent-social-gospel.html" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">issues</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">. Furthermore, because he is a youth leader who has chosen to associate with the New Apostolic Reformation, which is derived from the old Latter Rain cult, questions need to be raised about whether he believes their prophecies about a New Breed of Elect Seeds/Joel's Army generation that will take over the earth.</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">It is one thing for Giglio to take a stand against </span><a href="http://268generation.com/passion2013/freedom/" style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #666666; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">global slavery</a><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> -- which he purports to do. But there is no "social justice" in a false cult teaching that proclaims that there is a superior race generation, and inflames the "passions" of a purported new breed of elect seed who are said to be destined to become an army to rule the earth!</span><br />
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<i> <span style="color: #4c1130;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">"None calleth for justice,<br />nor any pleadeth for truth:<br />they trust in vanity, and speak lies;<br />they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity."</span></span></i><span style="color: #4c1130;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><br />(Isaiah 59:4)</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: x-small;"><br style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;" /><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><b>Endnotes:</b></span><br style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;" /><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">1. Emphases added. Graphic image and quotes from Jesus Culture Awakening 2011 promo piece, featuring Bill Johnson, Reinhard Bohnnke and Cindy Jacobs, Be sure to watch the video archived and posted at <a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/02/louie-giglio-passion-2013-and-jesus-culture/" style="color: #666666;">http://apprising.org/2013/01/02/louie-giglio-passion-2013-and-jesus-culture/</a> to hear the prophecies about the new generation. Original ource given is:<a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20110703122815/http://www.jesusculture.com/awakening/" style="color: #666666;">http://web.archive.org/web/20110703122815/http://www.jesusculture.com/awakening/</a></span><br style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;" /><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">1. Daniel Strauss, "Evers-Williams, Giglio to give invocation and benediction at inauguration," The Hill's Blog Briefing Room, Jan. 8, 2013, <a href="http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/276041-evers-williams-giglio-to-give-invocation-and-benediction-at-inauguration-#ixzz2HPLgwSCA" style="color: #666666;">http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/276041-evers-williams-giglio-to-give-invocation-and-benediction-at-inauguration-#ixzz2HPLgwSCA</a></span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> </span><br style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;" /><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">2. Ken Silva, "Lou Giglio, Passion 2013, and Jesus Culture," Apprising Ministries, Jan 2, 2013,<a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/02/louie-giglio-passion-2013-and-jesus-culture/" style="color: #666666;">http://apprising.org/2013/01/02/louie-giglio-passion-2013-and-jesus-culture/</a> citing the <i>Berean Call's </i>report, posted at <a href="http://www.thebereancall.org/content/august-2012-q-and-a-1" style="color: #666666;">http://www.thebereancall.org/content/august-2012-q-and-a-1</a></span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> </span><br style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;" /><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">3. Ken Silva, Ibid. <a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/02/louie-giglio-passion-2013-and-jesus-culture/" style="color: #666666;">http://apprising.org/2013/01/02/louie-giglio-passion-2013-and-jesus-culture/</a></span><br style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;" /><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">4. Ibid. </span><br style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;" /><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">5. Ken Silva, "JESUS CULTURE AND JUDAH SMITH TO JOIN PIPER, MOORE, CHAN AND OTHERS AT GIGLIO’S PASSION 2013," January 1, 2013, <a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/01/jesus-culture-and-judah-smith-to-join-piper-moore-chan-and-others-at-giglios-passion-2013/" style="color: #666666;">http://apprising.org/2013/01/01/jesus-culture-and-judah-smith-to-join-piper-moore-chan-and-others-at-giglios-passion-2013/</a> </span><br style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;" /><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">6. Note that Lou Giglio also has an association with Hillsong of Sydney, Australia. See Erin Benziger's report "LOUIE GIGLIO TO JOIN WORD FAITH LINEUP AT 2012 HILLSONG CONFERENCE," at Apprising Ministries: <a href="http://apprising.org/2012/07/01/louie-giglio-to-join-word-faith-lineup-at-2012-hillsong-conference/#more-70639" style="color: #666666;">http://apprising.org/2012/07/01/louie-giglio-to-join-word-faith-lineup-at-2012-hillsong-conference/#more-70639</a>. This association is a long one, as we have in our files a September 2008 e-mail from GodTV that advertises "the Hillsong Colour Conference - Bobbie Houston, Louie Giglio." </span><br style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;" /><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">7. See the online report by Bob DeWaay, and expert on the NAR, titled "AN INVASION OF ERROR—REVIEW OF WHEN HEAVEN INVADES EARTH BY BILL JOHNSON," posted at:<a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/06/an-invasion-of-error-review-of-when-heaven-invades-earth-by-bill-johnson/#more-82769" style="color: #666666;">http://apprising.org/2013/01/06/an-invasion-of-error-review-of-when-heaven-invades-earth-by-bill-johnson/#more-82769</a>. Note that Bill Johnson was key in in restoring Todd Bentley with Rick Joyner: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXNa1u87cXc" style="color: #666666;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXNa1u87cXc</a> and also see:<a href="http://apprising.org/2012/09/14/todd-bentley-bring-the-power-not-the-gospel/" style="color: #666666;">http://apprising.org/2012/09/14/todd-bentley-bring-the-power-not-the-gospel/</a>. See the many articles posted online about this: <a href="http://www.morningstarministries.org/resources/special-bulletins/2011/update-todd-bentley-note-bill-johnson#.UOxxfKVJWQc" style="color: #666666;">http://www.morningstarministries.org/resources/special-bulletins/2011/update-todd-bentley-note-bill-johnson#.UOxxfKVJWQc</a> and<a href="http://www.morningstarministries.org/resources/special-bulletins/2009/todd-bentley-begins-restoration-process-0#.UOxxk6VJWQc" style="color: #666666;">http://www.morningstarministries.org/resources/special-bulletins/2009/todd-bentley-begins-restoration-process-0#.UOxxk6VJWQc</a>. See more on Bill Johnson with C. Peter Wagner and the NAR: <a href="http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word/6611" style="color: #666666;">http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word/6611</a> and he is included in the NAR book THE REFORMER'S PLEDGE with Cindy Jacobs and Chuck Pierce and other NAR leaders:<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Reformers-Pledge-Bill-Johnson/dp/0768432693" style="color: #666666;">http://www.amazon.com/Reformers-Pledge-Bill-Johnson/dp/0768432693</a> </span><br style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;" /><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">8. See the graphic exhibits at "JESUS CULTURE AND JUDAH SMITH TO JOIN PIPER, MOORE, CHAN AND OTHERS AT GIGLIO’S PASSION 2013," <a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/01/jesus-culture-and-judah-smith-to-join-piper-moore-chan-and-others-at-giglios-passion-2013/" style="color: #666666;">http://apprising.org/2013/01/01/jesus-culture-and-judah-smith-to-join-piper-moore-chan-and-others-at-giglios-passion-2013/</a>. Original source is<a href="http://www.jesusculture.com/about" style="color: #666666;">http://www.jesusculture.com/about</a> </span><br style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;" /><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">9. "God's Dream? A KINGDOM BUILDING DREAM," July 17, 2008,<a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2008/07/gods-dream.html" style="color: #666666;">http://herescope.blogspot.com/2008/07/gods-dream.html</a>. </span><br style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;" /><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">The original video links are no longer online, but the young people in them were sporting actual MARKS on their foreheads. Emphases added. </span><br style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;" /><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">10. This conversation is transcribed and posted at the Herescope post, "The NEW BREED defined," 2/3/06, <a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2006/02/new-breed-defined.html" style="color: #666666;">http://herescope.blogspot.com/2006/02/new-breed-defined.html</a>. Transcripts of the Latter Rain prophecies of the Kansas City Prophets are available from Discernment Ministries. </span><br style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;" /><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">11. See the Herescope post, "IHOP's New Breed Leaders," 7/16/11, and read the list of quotations there: <a href="http://herescope.blogspot.com/2011/07/ihops-new-breed-leaders.html." style="color: #666666;">http://herescope.blogspot.com/2011/07/ihops-new-breed-leaders.html</a>. This particular quote comes from Rick Joyner, <i>The Morning Star Prophetic Bulletin</i>, August 1994, footnote 20 in the Oct/Nov/Dec 1994 Discernment Ministries Newsletter,<a href="http://www.discernment-ministries.org/Newsletters/NL1994OctNovDec.pdf" style="color: #666666;">http://www.discernment-ministries.org/Newsletters/NL1994OctNovDec.pdf</a></span><br style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;" /><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;">12. Ed Tarkowski, "The Significance of Filled Stadiums," reprinted from the February 1996 issue of <i>The Christian Conscience</i> magazine, Vol. 2 No. 2. Republished here in its entirety:<a href="http://www.discernment-ministries.org/Articles/FilledStadiums.pdf" style="color: #666666;">http://www.discernment-ministries.org/Articles/FilledStadiums.pdf</a>. We note with sadness that Ed Tarkowski passed away last week after a long battle with illness. Some emphases added. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"><b><span style="color: #cc0000;">*UPDATE 1-10-13: Giglio has now pulled out. See the article <a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/10/louie-giglio-out-of-obama-inauguration-over-anti-gay-comments/" style="color: #666666;">LOUIE GIGLIO OUT OF OBAMA INAUGURATION OVER “ANTI-GAY COMMENTS</a></span></b></span><span style="background-color: #eeeecc; color: #333333; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18.899999618530273px;"> </span></span></div>
Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-21651100975911384072013-01-06T00:06:00.000-08:002013-01-06T00:06:01.083-08:00The Passion Conference: Judah Smith Glorifies ...Judah Smith<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;"><i>From part 3 of a 3-part series on the 2013 Passion Conference:</i></span></blockquote>
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<span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">"...Before sending your child off to a conference that calls itself Christian, look into the people who are going to be filling your child's mind. Those who claim Jesus may not be all that sterling of a role model as you would want. </span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">Overall, I took away that what was taught to the young adults at Passion 2013 was that visions are normal and to be expected. If you're not having visions and hearing God's voice speaking to you personally, something is wrong with you. Topically addressing the scripture in a skeleton context while filling the rest of the time with personal anecdotes and description of ecstatic experience is a sermon. What we experience in ecstatic mode is to be preferred to diligent study of the word. In other words, the bible is OK, but visions are better. The world's social ills can be fixed with zeal and money. Plus, fixing the world's social ills with zeal and money </span><i style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;"></i><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">should be the </span><i style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">purpose </i><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">of my life. A real faith includes volume, excitement, drama, and surfing from one high encounter with God to the next....</span><br /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">I have been blogging a discernment series on what was taught at the Passion 2013 conference held in Atlanta this January. There was a star studded Christian lineup of speakers and singers at the conference. Unfortunately, that did not guarantee that the Word was handled correctly. Much was taught that was heretical. What was not overtly heretical was implicitly denigrating of preaching, the bible, and church as an organization. I had done an examination of the lead singer for Jesus Culture in part 1, and looked at what Louie Giglio said in part 2. Those links are below. All was balanced against what the bible says.</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">In this part I'll present a bare bones synopsis of what Judah Smith said, and then conclude lower down.</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">Judah Smith talked with the kids at Passion 2013. It is all the rage these days to pooh-pooh doctrine. To mock religion. William Young did it in The Shack, writing,</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">--the dusty old King James Bible</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">--church attendance is "religious conditioning"</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">--“Images of family devotions from his childhood came spilling into his mind, not exactly good memories </span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">--"God’s voice had been reduced to paper, and even that paper had to be moderated and deciphered by the proper authorities and intellect"</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">The cumulative effect of these subtle denigrations of what Jesus holds dear have an effect. In this piece, Smith is talking about Genesis 1, "Let us make man in our image." He denigrated traditional Christianity, too. He said--</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">"For those of you who are not scholars, you are wondering who's "Us" and who's "Our"? God, I know this is awkward, but who are you talking to? I suppose you could create an alter-ego, but really, who are you talking to, God? ... For those of you who are </span><i style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">so </i><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">scholarly and have been around church forever, you say, [he makes his voice a sing-song nasal so the mocking quality would become evident] "Clearly that is a a reference to the triune Godhead." For the rest of us that watch NFL games and have a real life, it's a bit [garbled]."</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">There are several messages here just in this short snippet, and none have anything to do with proper biblical understanding or preaching. Smith taught 60,000 kids that--</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">--If you've 'been around church forever' you're not a respected elder. You're outdated deadwood.</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">--Proper study is not to be desired or you risk being branded a "scholar". In my day they were called disciples.</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">--Studying the bible and going to church means you don't have a 'real life'. </span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">--It is cool to mock the brethren</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">He also said, </span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">--Without community our world will not see God</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">--Trusting leadership is not easy (reminds me of the secular revolutionary mantra from hippie 1960s 'don't trust anyone over 30')</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">--Going to a local place where people know you is not easy (he rarely says "church") </span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">--Jesus is building something. He is not just here just to individually save people.</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">Parents, is that what you want your child learning? That leaders are hard to trust and church isn't real life? That is what these people are teaching. Before sending your child off to a conference that calls itself Christian, look into the people who are going to be filling your child's mind. Those who claim Jesus may not be all that sterling of a role model as you would want.<br /><br />READ <a href="http://the-end-time.blogspot.com/2013/01/part-3-discerning-gnostic-conference.html" target="_blank">FULL ARTICLE HERE</a></span></div>
Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-51366193441141878472013-01-05T23:52:00.001-08:002013-02-23T00:52:23.994-08:00Discerning a Gnostic conference called "Passion 2013," Louie Giglio<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 24px;"><i>from part two of a three-part series on the "Passion 2013" conference</i></span></blockquote>
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Louie Giglio is a 54 year old pastor of Pastor of Passion City Church in the Atlanta area which he founded in 2008. Prior to that Giglio was a pastor at Andy Stanley's North Point Church for 13 years, itself an emergent-leaning church with a mystical bent. He is Speaker/Founder of the Passion Movement. The Passion Movement is most publicly seen in the large conferences held at the first of each year and is so named after the year. Passion 2013 just concluded this week in Atlanta, Georgia. The<a href="http://www.ajc.com/news/news/passion-2013-draws-more-than-60000-young-people-to/nTkch/" style="color: #7c93a1; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank"><b>Atlanta paper reported that 60,000 youths attended</b></a>.<br />
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Mr Giglio's main ministry began in and continues to be aimed at Christian youth- especially college aged students through young adult.<br />
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More than 170,000 people from more than 130 countries watched part of the Passion 2013 conference online. His "Laminin" sermon has attracted over 3 million views on Youtube. If you would like another take on the Giglio laminin sermon, I point you to the essay <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/aid/v3/n1/laminin-and-the-cross" style="color: #7c93a1; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank"><b>Laminin and the Cross</b></a> at the science-oriented website <i>Answers in Genesis</i>, where we are specifically cautioned against looking for signs in the world OR in science via Mr Giglio's laminin doctrine.<br />
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This blogger had this to say about the <a href="http://hipandthigh.blogspot.com/2011/05/laminin-molecule-and-inadequacies-of.html" style="color: #7c93a1; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank"><b>Inadequacies of Evidentialism</b></a>(i.e. 'Laminin proof'):<br />
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And though I would imagine his ministry has been a blessing to many folks over the years, he is one of those type of speakers who will sensationalize Christian "evidences," like the laminin molecule, in order to make God appear to be really cool and neat-o. But this misappropriation of Christian evidence has some hidden dangers that will undo your credibility as a messenger for God.<br />
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First, it capitulates to the culture, particularly the teen culture who already think being a Christian is "squaresville." Though there is good intentions with the attempt to show that believing in Jesus doesn't make a person an "L7," what happens when smug and surly Devon goes home after one of these Giglio conferences where he opines on the shape of the laminin molecule, does an internet search only to discover that Giglio exaggerated his proof? All that shows is Christians can lie.<br />
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Secondly, the illustration merely trivializes the Gospel. Honestly, does the laminin molecule have to look like a cross in order for God to be a perfect creator? How does a cross shaped molecule help God out exactly? How does it make God more real? Isn't the fact that there is a complex, self-replicating molecule to begin with proof enough for God's hand in all of life?</blockquote>
I agree.<br />
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So the statistics show us that Pastor Giglio is popular and has influence. The facts show that his most famous sermon is a bit off-center and exaggerated, with a wrong emphasis. With such numbers it behooves us to take a look at what he is preaching to these multitudes of youth, many of whom reside in my own state of Georgia.<br />
<br />
The <a href="http://268generation.com/passion2013/about/story/" style="color: #7c93a1; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank"><b>Passion 2013 website</b></a> says "At the heart of it all, Passion exists to see a generation stake their lives on what matters most. For us, that's the fame of the One who rescues and restores, and the privilege we have to fully leverage our lives by amplifying His name in everything we do."<br />
<br />
This is something I have read frequently that Giglio and the people associated with Giglio say. It is that what they do is for the fame of Jesus. On the surface it looks like bringing fame to Jesus is a good thing. But words matter. I say again, <i>words matter</i>. Jesus doesn't need fame. He had fame. (<a class="lbsBibleRef" data-reference="Luke 4.14" data-version="esv" href="http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Luke%204.14" style="color: #7c93a1; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank">Luke 4:14</a>). Fame is fleeting and fame is fickle. We do not need to bring Him fame.What we bring Jesus is glory.<br />
<br />
Puritan Thomas Watson wrote in his sermon, "<a href="http://www.puritansermons.com/watson/watson5.htm" style="color: #7c93a1; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank"><b>Man's Chief End is to Glorify God</b></a>",<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The glorifying of God, <a class="lbsBibleRef" data-reference="1 Pet. 4.11" data-version="esv" href="http://biblia.com/bible/esv/1%20Pet.%204.11" style="color: #7c93a1; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank">1 Pet. 4:11</a>. "That God in all things may be glorified." The glory of God is a silver thread which must run through all our actions. l Cor. 10:31. "Whether therefore ye eat or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God." Everything works to some end in things natural and artificial; now, man being a rational creature, must propose some end to himself, and that should be, that he may lift up God in the world. He had better lose his life than the end of his living. The great truth asserted is that the end of every man's living should be to glorify God. Glorifying God has respect to all the persons in the Trinity; it respects God the Father who gave us life; God the Son, who lost his life for us; and God the Holy Ghost, who produces a new life in us; we must bring glory to the whole Trinity.</blockquote>
Jesus does not need <i>us </i>to bring Him fame.<br />
<br />
To continue, Mr Giglio has gone the way of people who teach, preach and expect to hear divine audible voices directly telling them what to do specifically and in individual circumstances. And not that they can expect this voice just once, but often. At last year's Passion 2012 conference, Mr Giglio said, "How many of you heard the voice of God speak specifically, clearly, directly, and personally, to you? Can you just put a hand up? I’d like you to share it. Can you put a hand up for a minute?" ... "God spoke to me.” Don’t let the voice of the darkness, tell you that you are not worth that God would not speak to you. Don’t let him tell you, you don’t matter. God spoke to you."<br />
<br />
He teaches youth that it is normative to hear God, and worse, the flip side of his teaching is that if you do NOT hear God, there is something wrong with you. Apparently Mr Giglio has full confidence in his ability to detect the Voice. At a conference in GA in March 2012, Mr Giglio was interviewed by his friend Andy Stanley. Mr Giglio said, "The upside to planting a church at 50 years old – You care less about what other people think. You have more confidence in your ability to hear from Jesus.”<br />
<br />
The ability to hear His voice- through the scripture and no other place- comes from the Holy Spirit. Not ourselves.<br />
<br />
That was a short overview. Now to the Passion 2013 conference..."<br />
<br />
READ <a href="http://the-end-time.blogspot.com/2013/01/part-2-discerning-gnostic-conference.html" target="_blank">FULL ARTICLE HERE</a></div>
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Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-60275681203212651052013-01-05T23:42:00.001-08:002013-02-23T00:57:47.107-08:00KIM WALKER-SMITH and the JESUS CULTURE CONTROVERSY<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<i><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">from Part I of "</span><b style="background-color: white; color: #5dc2c0; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;"><a href="http://the-end-time.blogspot.com/2013/01/part-2-discerning-gnostic-conference.html" style="background-color: white; color: #5dc2c0; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" target="_blank">Discerning a Gnostic conference called "Passion 2013," Louie Giglio </a>"</b></i></blockquote>
<a href="http://youtu.be/uoZRNvkwfx0" style="background-color: white; color: #7c93a1; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank"><b>Kim Walker-Smith</b></a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;"> [Notice </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Walker_%28musician%29#Kim_Walker-Smith_Marriage" style="background-color: white; color: #7c93a1; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank"><b>her hyphenated name</b></a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">, and read</span><a class="lbsBibleRef" data-reference="Genesis 2.24" data-version="esv" href="http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Genesis%202.24" style="background-color: white; color: #7c93a1; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank">Genesis 2:24</a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">] is a part of the Jesus Culture Band. She is part of a home church called Bethel Church in Redding CA. Smith is a worship leader and/or a "</span><a href="http://www.lyricshall.com/biography/Kim+Walker-Smith/" style="background-color: white; color: #7c93a1; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank"><b>worship pastor</b></a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">" at that same church, which</span><a href="http://www.ibethel.org/church-information" style="background-color: white; color: #7c93a1; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank">teaches</a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;"> </span><a href="http://www.ibethel.org/bethel-school-of-supernatural-ministry" style="background-color: white; color: #7c93a1; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank">heresies</a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">. On her church page she </span><a href="http://www.ibethel.org/events/2012/10/power-love-prophetic-conference-bethel-church" style="background-color: white; color: #7c93a1; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank"><b>is listed</b></a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;"> as as "a passionate worship leader with an anointing to bring an entire generation into an encounter with God." I'm impressed. The Apostles didn't even have such an anointing.</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">At a conference called 'Awakening 2011' Smith shared with the audience a vision she said she had. It was an experience of cuddling with Jesus [glorified, in Heaven, for that is where Christ now resides], and God [also in Heaven] was nearby too. She said her vision buoyed her and she lives off it, explaining, "I live off of the encounter ... until the next one." Yet the bible says “It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” (</span><a class="lbsBibleRef" data-reference="Matthew 4.4" data-version="esv" href="http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Matthew%204.4" style="background-color: white; color: #7c93a1; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank">Matthew 4:4</a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">). This means we don't live just in the flesh and for the flesh (having adrenaline rushed </span><i style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">encounters</i><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">) but we live by His word.</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">The problem that comes from living from encounter to encounter is three-fold: first, we live by His word as the bible commands, not by experiences. Second, human nature requires ever bigger rushes. The last one has to be topped. It is the Law of Diminishing returns for an adrenaline junkie. Adrenaline junkies seek encounters or experiences in which a high is produced by epinephrine released by the adrenal gland. It produces a fight-or-flight response (one which Ms Smith admits she felt during each of the encounters she described). The problem is that each 'high' has to be succeeded by one with more oomph in order to achieve the same effect. It seems like it would be an upward spiral but it is really a downward one. Third, what happens when the encounters stop? They do and they will. After each high, there is a low. What will sustain her faith then? If you live by the word, it will never pass away. (</span><a class="lbsBibleRef" data-reference="Matthew 24.35" data-version="esv" href="http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Matthew%2024.35" style="background-color: white; color: #7c93a1; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank">Matthew 24:35</a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">).</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">Here is a bit of what Mrs Smith said regarding her encounter with Jesus and God:</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">"This is not a normal thing for me, to have these encounters." But then later she said "I live off of the encounter ... until the next one." We know from the bible that several righteous men encountered Jesus as He is glorified, but they are few. </span><u style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;"><i>Few</i></u><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">. Isaiah, Ezekiel, Paul, and John were lifted up and saw Him in heaven. Of those four, three were allowed to relate a small bit of what they saw and Paul was commanded not to speak of it at all. Peter saw a transfigured Christ on earth, Paul encountered Jesus on the road to Damascus and Moses encountered God atop Mt Sinai.</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">In comparing her experience with the ones above from the bible, the two experiences are dramatically different. I'll summarize what </span><a href="http://youtu.be/uoZRNvkwfx0" style="background-color: white; color: #7c93a1; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank"><b>Mrs Walker-Smith has said in her video testimony</b></a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">. Then we will compare her experience to those who experienced God from the bible's record:</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">In her vision, she said she saw Jesus and God behind Him. God beckoned for her to come closer. When she did, two questions popped into her mind that she wanted to ask Jesus. One was "How much do you love me, and the other was "What were you thinking when you created me?"</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br />
<div class="separator" style="background-color: white; clear: both; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-align: center;">
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<span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">In answering her question as to how much Jesus loved her, Smith said he started stretching out his arms, and it looked like Stretch Armstrong, the superhero cartoon character "whose arms and legs could stretch out like spaghetti noodles. And He's laughing hysterically."</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">A person entering the presence of God and Jesus would become immediately insensate & insensible. But Mrs Smith remained conscious enough in her own flesh to ask Jesus to 'tell me about me.' Then she likens him to a cartoon character, and says he laughed hysterically. Hysterical laughter is out-of-control laughter, and Jesus is never out of control.</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">The bible tells us that if you were one of the FEW men to have seen heaven while still alive that what you see is unlawful to express. (</span><a class="lbsBibleRef" data-reference="2 Corinthians 12.4" data-version="esv" href="http://biblia.com/bible/esv/2%20Corinthians%2012.4" style="background-color: white; color: #7c93a1; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank">2 Corinthians 12:4</a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">). But if directed to tell, the visionary must use many symbols and metaphors to try and get the point across because the scene is so incomprehensible. The writer uses exalted metaphors to convey the inexpressible beauty and holiness of the scene. The writers did not use everyday toys and cartoon characters to convey the scene, in no way is that appropriate. The metaphors themselves that John or Ezekiel used for example were 'hair white like wool, eyes like a flame, feet like bronze', (Revelation 1) 'a brightness all around Him...like a bow in the sky.' (</span><a class="lbsBibleRef" data-reference="Ezekiel 1.27-28" data-version="esv" href="http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Ezekiel%201.27-28" style="background-color: white; color: #7c93a1; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank">Ezekiel 1:27-28</a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">).</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">After Daniel's visions of the Ancient of Days, he became "distressed, alarmed and dismayed." (</span><a class="lbsBibleRef" data-reference="Daniel 7.15" data-version="esv" href="http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Daniel%207.15" style="background-color: white; color: #7c93a1; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank">Daniel 7:15</a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">). That sounds bad enough, but the Hebrew says the word alarmed means active suffering and piercing grief. (</span><a href="http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/3735.htm" style="background-color: white; color: #7c93a1; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank"><b>Strong's</b></a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">). Yet in Mrs Smith's visions she giggled like a schoolgirl and cuddled in Jesus' arms while God roamed around nearby.</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">Mrs Smith said that she had wanted to ask Jesus two questions but in that first vision had only asked one. She continued in her sharing of her now second vision in which the unasked question was answered: "What were you thinking when you made me". She said that a few months later she was watching the sun come up early in the morning. "I like to watch the sun come up, which is a miracle in itself ... because I am not a morning person." Oh wait, I thought she was going to praise the creator. </span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">"Again, I felt the presence of the Lord, and I felt like He wanted me to ask that question. Jesus is like, 'Please, please ask me that question.' And again he said, 'Please, please ask me that question."</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">The scene she describes here is of a begging Jesus. It continues: </span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">Smith said she's now standing with Jesus. In front of her is God the father. Jesus's got a table, and He reaches into His body and clutches his heart and rips a chunk off His heart and throws it on the table... he fashions her out of a clay or play-dough like substance, puts her into a ballerina music box where she begins dancing, and then Jesus begins shouting "who hooooo" while running around with his arms up, continually going around, "woo hoo!" in circles, running around a bunch of times. Smith said he looked like a jack in the box.</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">"Then I'm in the palm of the Father's hand...and I see His heart and the outline of his heart and the outline is the chunk he ripped out and he slides me into His heart like a puzzle piece and it's a perfect fit. Smith said Jesus told her, "I made you because you make me happy." </span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">A few days ago, </span><a href="http://the-end-time.blogspot.com/2012/12/summary-of-therapeutic-gospel-trevin.html" style="background-color: white; color: #7c93a1; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank"><b>I wrote about the Therapeutic Gospel</b></a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">. I noted how the Gnostic </span><u style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">changes the emphasis</u><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;"> of the Gospel from the work of Jesus to our own worth. I'd said:</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><blockquote class="tr_bq" style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">
The Therapeutic Gospel does something else that's devastating. It leads us to believe that it is our worth that motivates God's action to save us. The thinking is, Jesus came to save us because we are so valuable to God. ... A good example comes from comparing two parables.<br />Pastor Wax compares the subtle shift in a counterfeit Gospel from being Christ-centered to man-centered, by comparing the parable of the sheep as they are presented in Luke and in the false Gospel of Thomas. Here is the Gospel of Luke:<br /><br />“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.’ Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. (<a class="lbsBibleRef" data-reference="Luke 15.4-7" data-version="esv" href="http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Luke%2015.4-7" style="color: #7c93a1; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank">Luke 15:4-7</a>)<br /><br />The other is from the non-canonical, false Gospel of Thomas.<br /><br />"Jesus said, "The kingdom is like a shepherd who had a hundred sheep. One of them, the largest, went astray. He left the ninety-nine sheep and looked for that one until he found it. When he had gone to such trouble, he said to the sheep, 'I care for you more than the ninety-nine.'" (FALSE, NON-CANONICAL “Gospel of Thomas”)<br /><br />What has happened here, said Pr. Wax, is that in the counterfeit Gnostic gospel the point of the parable in the counterfeit is about the worth of the sheep, instead of the work of the Shepherd.</blockquote>
<span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">Jesus did not create us because it made Him happy. </span><a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/kw/why-did-god-create-us" style="background-color: white; color: #7c93a1; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank"><b>He made humans so as to bring HIM glory</b></a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">. (</span><a class="lbsBibleRef" data-reference="Romans 11.36" data-version="esv" href="http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Romans%2011.36" style="background-color: white; color: #7c93a1; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank">Romans 11:36</a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">). Do you see the </span><i style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">exact </i><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">Gnostic emphasis that is present in the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas is </span><i style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">also </i><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">in Smith's vision? It was the worth of Kim Walker-Smith that caused Jesus to make her? And in so doing brought Jesus a measure of happiness </span><i style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">he had not had before</i><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">?</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">This is not possible. It does not line up with the scriptures and if it does not line up with scripture, it is false.</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">In looking at the biblical record of people who were lifted to heaven or saw Jesus glorified, we compare their reactions with Kim Walker-Smith's. For example, Isaiah- </span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">Isaiah said, "And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts!" (</span><a class="lbsBibleRef" data-reference="Isaiah 6.5" data-version="esv" href="http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Isaiah%206.5" style="background-color: white; color: #7c93a1; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank">Isaiah 6:5</a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">)</span><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><br style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">"Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell on my face, and I heard the voice of one speaking." (</span><a class="lbsBibleRef" data-reference="Ezekiel 1.28b" data-version="esv" href="http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Ezekiel%201.28b" style="background-color: white; color: #7c93a1; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank">Ezekiel 1:28b</a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, 'Palatino Linotype', Palatino, serif; font-size: 18px; line-height: 24px;">)</span><br />
<a href="http://the-end-time.blogspot.com/2013/01/discerning-gnostic-conference-called.html" target="_blank">FULL ARTICLE HERE</a></div>
Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-14397300183787086772013-01-05T19:15:00.000-08:002013-01-05T19:15:26.195-08:00Part Two: Passion 2013 Examined: Worldview Weekend Radio<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px;">Brannons guest is Chris Rosebrough. Topic: Brannon and Chris discuss Passion 2013 taking place in Atlanta, Georgia with 60,000 Christian college students in attendance. Brannon and Chris break down some of t</span><span class="text_exposed_show" style="color: #333333; display: inline; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px;">he things being taught that do not line up with the Bible as well as analyze the worldview of some of the speakers and the musical group Jesus Culture. <a href="http://www.worldviewweekend.com/audio/brannon-howse-aired-january-4-2013" target="_blank">FULL AUDIO HERE</a><br /><br />Topic: One of the musical groups at Passion 2013 is a group called Jesus Culture which came out of the Church of New Apostolic Reformation proponent and Pastor of Bethel Church in Redding, California; Bill Johnson. Brannon plays numerous sound clips from Jesus Culture band members as well as clips by their pastor Bill Johnson and students that are part of Johnsons church. These clips will make it clear that this group is following a different Jesus, a different gospel and embracing mysticism.<br /><br />Topic: A Jesus Culture member talks about working with New Apostolic Reformation leaders Cindy Jacobs, Lou Engle and Bill Johnson. You will not believe the heresy revealed in some of these audio clips so hang on. Topic: Hear audio clips of Giglio and Gary Haugen speaking at Passion 2013.<br /><br />Topic: When John Piper spoke at this conference last night did he call out the false teaching and false teachers? Even if Piper gave the gospel did he still violate 2 John 9-11, 2 Corinthians 6:14 and Romans 16:17 by being there?<br /><br />Topic: What is worship? Is worship an experience? Is worship a feeling? Is God pleased if worship songs are led by unbelievers and false teachers?<br /><br />Topic: Why is this conference a real case study in where and how the modern-church is being deceived and co-opted and how should Biblical Bereans respond?<br /><br />Topic: Why are so many pastors not informed about the biggest false teaches, and trends in the modern church today?<br />Click here to listen now:<br /><a href="http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.worldviewweekend.com%2Faudio%2Fbrannon-howse-aired-january-4-2013&h=QAQEwjHHn&s=1" rel="nofollow nofollow" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: initial;" target="_blank">http://www.worldviewweekend.com/audio/brannon-howse-aired-january-4-2013</a></span></div>
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Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-78539074358249907302013-01-05T19:02:00.000-08:002013-01-05T19:02:13.979-08:00FRIENDS OF BETHEL CHURCH, HOME OF JESUS CULTURE<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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By <a href="http://apprising.org/author/ken-silva-pastor-teacher/" rel="author" style="color: #996600;" title="Posts by Ken Silva pastor-teacher">Ken Silva pastor-teacher</a> on Jan 4, 2013 in <a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/04/friends-of-bethel-church-home-of-jesus-culture/" target="_blank">APPRISING MINISTRIES</a></div>
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<a href="http://apprising.org/" style="color: #996600;">Apprising Ministries</a> is among those online apologetics and discernment ministries (OADM) who’ve been covering <a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/02/louie-giglio-passion-2013-and-jesus-culture/" style="color: #996600;">Louie Giglio, Passion 2013, And Jesus Culture</a> this week.</div>
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In <a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/03/jesus-culture-of-bethel-church-and-practicing-raising-the-dead/" style="color: #996600;">Jesus Culture—Of Bethel Church—And Practicing Raising The Dead</a> I also reminded you that <a href="http://www.jesusculture.com/" style="color: #996600;">Jesus Culture</a> (JC) bills itself as not “just a band, but…a ministry of <a href="http://www.ibethel.org/" style="color: #996600;">Bethel Church</a>.”<a class="footnote-link footnote-identifier-link" href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/04/friends-of-bethel-church-home-of-jesus-culture/#footnote_0_82465" id="identifier_0_82465" style="bottom: 5px; color: #996600; margin: 0px 0px 0px 2px; position: relative;" title="http://www.facebook.com/jesusculture, accessed 1-4-13.">1</a></div>
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Why is this important? I’ll tell you; because we have some 60,000 college age youth people who’ve filled the Georgia Dome and now had JC lead them in worship at Louie Giglio’s annual Passion conference.<a class="footnote-link footnote-identifier-link" href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/04/friends-of-bethel-church-home-of-jesus-culture/#footnote_1_82465" id="identifier_1_82465" style="bottom: 5px; color: #996600; margin: 0px 0px 0px 2px; position: relative;" title="http://bit.ly/WlEQY0, accessed 1-4-13.">2</a></div>
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In addition these same young people have now seen and heard Southern Baptist quasi-elder <a href="http://apprising.org/category/beth-moore/" style="color: #996600;">Beth Moore</a>and New Calvinist mentor<a class="footnote-link footnote-identifier-link" href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/04/friends-of-bethel-church-home-of-jesus-culture/#footnote_2_82465" id="identifier_2_82465" style="bottom: 5px; color: #996600; margin: 0px 0px 0px 2px; position: relative;" title="http://ti.me/qhU5V, accessed 1-4-13.">3</a> John Piper at this very same event along with JC.</div>
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Now, as I pointed out before, I’m not saying that by appearing at <a href="http://268generation.com/passion2013/" style="color: #996600;">Passion 2013</a> Moore and Piper personally ascribe to all JC and BC is about spiritually. However, their appearance at Passion will have an effect.</div>
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There are many of these young people drawn in by the “worship” music of JC who will be under the impression that JC must be okay if Beth Moore and John Piper are at an event where JC leads worship.</div>
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So, this is why I’m drilling down on JC, and their spiritual train wreck of a church, where pastor <a href="http://www.ibethel.org//users/billandbenijohnson" style="color: #996600;">Bill Johnson</a> and his wife pastrix Brenda (Beni) hold court with e.g. BC Associate Pastor and “prophet” <a href="http://kvministries.com/about" style="color: #996600;">Kris Vallotton</a>.</div>
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I’ve also clearly documented for you before that BC pastor Bill Johnson aligns himself, and the BC ministry JC, with a wild assortment of spiritual wingnuts like NAR “Apostle” <a href="http://www.thecall.com/Articles/1000104027/TheCall/Who_We_Are/Lou_Engle.aspx" style="color: #996600;">Lou Engle</a> and “respected prophet” <a href="http://www.mikeandcindyjacobs.com/cetest-firstpage/cindy/" style="color: #996600;">Cindy Jacobs</a>.</div>
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Consider the speaking lineup for JC’s <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20110703122815/http://www.jesusculture.com/awakening/" style="color: #996600;">The Jesus Culture Awakening 2011</a>:</div>
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<img alt="J0" height="318" src="http://i0.wp.com/apprising.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/J0.jpg?resize=288%2C318" width="288" /><br />(<a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20110703122815/http://www.jesusculture.com/awakening/" style="color: #996600;">source</a>)</div>
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This is not guilt-by-association; this is guilt by endorsement, period. No way around it. It isn’t like I’m saying, for example, that supposed “apostle” Cindy Jacobs once rode by Bill Johnson’s house so they’re “connected.”</div>
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Jacobs regularly speaks at JC events. If your spiritual discernment is so far off that you can’t see this woman is absolutely a false prophet, and you think she’s speaking for God, you best question your own relationship to Jesus.</div>
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Yet here below you’ll see <a href="http://www.jesusculture.com/team/banning-liebscher" style="color: #996600;">Banning Liebscher</a> from JC’s <a href="http://www.jesusculture.com/m/revival-chats" style="color: #996600;">Revival Chats</a> with “one of our dear friends,” <a href="http://apprising.org/category/new-apostolic-reformation/" style="color: #996600;">New Apostolic Reformation</a> apostlette Cindy Jacobs. By the way, Liebsher is:</div>
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BC pastor Liebscher tells us below that Cindy Jacobs has “become a real mom to our movement” and has “spoken a ton [of prophetic word] into what we’re doing.” It’s important here to note that he calls JC a “movement.”</div>
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A movement, I might add, which now has gained increased credibility within mainstream evangelicalism through being featured by <a href="https://twitter.com/louiegiglio" style="color: #996600;">Louie Giglio</a> at his <em>Passion 2013 </em>conference. Here’s Liebscher and Jacobs:</div>
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<embed allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" bgcolor="#000000" flashvars="id=me_flash_0&isvideo=true&autoplay=false&preload=none&width=480&startvolume=0.8&timerrate=250&height=270&file=http%3A%2F%2Fapprising.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F01%2FJacobsJC.mov" height="270" id="me_flash_0" loop="false" name="me_flash_0" play="true" pluginspage="//www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" quality="high" src="http://apprising.org/discern/wp-content/plugins/media-element-html5-video-and-audio-player/mediaelement/flashmediaelement.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="480" wmode="transparent"></embed></div>
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<div class="mejs-button mejs-playpause-button mejs-play" style="background-position: 0px 50%; border: 0px; float: left; font-size: 11px; height: 26px; line-height: 11px; list-style-type: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 26px;">
<button aria-controls="mep_0" style="background-image: url(http://d2u8j2rbuzdexy.cloudfront.net/discern/wp-content/plugins/media-element-html5-video-and-audio-player/mediaelement/controls.png); background-position: 0px 0px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border: 0px; cursor: pointer; display: block; font-size: 0px; height: 16px; line-height: 0; margin: 7px 5px; padding: 0px; position: absolute; width: 16px;" title="Play/Pause" type="button"></button></div>
<div class="mejs-time mejs-currenttime-container" style="background-position: 0px 50%; border: 0px; box-sizing: content-box; color: white; float: left; font-size: 11px; height: 17px; line-height: 11px; list-style-type: none; margin: 0px; overflow: hidden; padding: 8px 3px 0px; text-align: center; width: auto;">
<span class="mejs-currenttime" style="display: block; float: left; line-height: 12px; margin: 1px 2px 0px 0px; width: auto;">00:00</span></div>
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<span class="mejs-time-total" style="background-image: -webkit-linear-gradient(top, rgba(30, 30, 30, 0.8), rgba(60, 60, 60, 0.8)); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-left-radius: 2px; border-bottom-right-radius: 2px; border-top-left-radius: 2px; border-top-right-radius: 2px; cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 10px; margin: 5px; position: absolute; width: 322px;"><span class="mejs-time-loaded" style="background-image: -webkit-linear-gradient(top, rgba(44, 124, 145, 0.8), rgba(78, 183, 212, 0.8)); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-left-radius: 2px; border-bottom-right-radius: 2px; border-top-left-radius: 2px; border-top-right-radius: 2px; cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 10px; position: absolute; width: 0px;"></span><span class="mejs-time-current" style="background-image: -webkit-linear-gradient(top, rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.901961), rgba(200, 200, 200, 0.8)); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-left-radius: 2px; border-bottom-right-radius: 2px; border-top-left-radius: 2px; border-top-right-radius: 2px; cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 10px; position: absolute; width: 0px;"></span></span></div>
<div class="mejs-time mejs-duration-container" style="background-position: 0px 50%; border: 0px; box-sizing: content-box; color: white; float: left; font-size: 11px; height: 17px; line-height: 11px; list-style-type: none; margin: 0px; overflow: hidden; padding: 8px 3px 0px; text-align: center; width: auto;">
<span class="mejs-duration" style="display: block; float: left; line-height: 12px; margin: 1px 2px 0px 0px; width: auto;">00:00</span></div>
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<button aria-controls="mep_0" style="background-image: url(http://d2u8j2rbuzdexy.cloudfront.net/discern/wp-content/plugins/media-element-html5-video-and-audio-player/mediaelement/controls.png); background-position: -16px -16px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border: 0px; cursor: pointer; display: block; font-size: 0px; height: 16px; line-height: 0; margin: 7px 5px; padding: 0px; position: absolute; width: 16px;" title="Mute Toggle" type="button"></button></div>
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<button aria-controls="mep_0" style="background-image: url(http://d2u8j2rbuzdexy.cloudfront.net/discern/wp-content/plugins/media-element-html5-video-and-audio-player/mediaelement/controls.png); background-position: -32px 0px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border: 0px; cursor: pointer; display: block; font-size: 0px; height: 16px; line-height: 0; margin: 7px 5px; padding: 0px; position: absolute; width: 16px;" title="Fullscreen" type="button"></button></div>
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Now you have another clear depiction of just how extremely off-target the JC Movement is, which extends from Bill johnson’s BC. I’ll leave you now with some of the more notable <a href="http://www.ibethel.org/bethel-websites/friends-of-bethel" style="color: #996600;">Friends of bethel</a> from the BC website itself.<a class="footnote-link footnote-identifier-link" href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/04/friends-of-bethel-church-home-of-jesus-culture/#footnote_3_82465" id="identifier_3_82465" style="bottom: 5px; color: #996600; margin: 0px 0px 0px 2px; position: relative;" title="The link is near the bottom of the page here: http://www.ibethel.org/links, accessed 1-4-13.">4</a></div>
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Friends they recommend and link to such as:</div>
<blockquote style="border-left-color: rgb(51, 0, 0); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 0px;">
<div style="margin-bottom: 15px;">
<img alt="BCF0" class="align size-full wp-image-82490" height="52" src="http://i2.wp.com/apprising.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/BCF0.jpg?resize=186%2C52" width="186" /><br />(<a href="http://www.ibethel.org/bethel-websites/friends-of-bethel" style="color: #996600;">source</a>)</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="margin-bottom: 15px;">
Yes, it is this <a href="http://www.bennyhinn.org/" style="color: #996600;">Benny Hinn</a>:</div>
<div class="mejs-container mejs-player mejs-video" id="mep_1" style="background-color: black; font-family: Helvetica, Arial; height: 270px; margin: 15px 0px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; width: 480px;">
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<embed allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" bgcolor="#000000" flashvars="id=me_flash_1&isvideo=true&autoplay=false&preload=none&width=480&startvolume=0.8&timerrate=250&height=270&file=http%3A%2F%2Fapprising.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F01%2FHinn.mov" height="270" id="me_flash_1" loop="false" name="me_flash_1" play="true" pluginspage="//www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" quality="high" src="http://apprising.org/discern/wp-content/plugins/media-element-html5-video-and-audio-player/mediaelement/flashmediaelement.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="480" wmode="transparent"></embed></div>
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<div class="mejs-overlay mejs-layer mejs-overlay-play" style="cursor: pointer; height: 270px; left: 0px; position: absolute; top: 0px; width: 480px;">
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<div class="mejs-button mejs-playpause-button mejs-play" style="background-position: 0px 50%; border: 0px; float: left; font-size: 11px; height: 26px; line-height: 11px; list-style-type: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 26px;">
<button aria-controls="mep_1" style="background-image: url(http://d2u8j2rbuzdexy.cloudfront.net/discern/wp-content/plugins/media-element-html5-video-and-audio-player/mediaelement/controls.png); background-position: 0px 0px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border: 0px; cursor: pointer; display: block; font-size: 0px; height: 16px; line-height: 0; margin: 7px 5px; padding: 0px; position: absolute; width: 16px;" title="Play/Pause" type="button"></button></div>
<div class="mejs-time mejs-currenttime-container" style="background-position: 0px 50%; border: 0px; box-sizing: content-box; color: white; float: left; font-size: 11px; height: 17px; line-height: 11px; list-style-type: none; margin: 0px; overflow: hidden; padding: 8px 3px 0px; text-align: center; width: auto;">
<span class="mejs-currenttime" style="display: block; float: left; line-height: 12px; margin: 1px 2px 0px 0px; width: auto;">00:00</span></div>
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<span class="mejs-time-total" style="background-image: -webkit-linear-gradient(top, rgba(30, 30, 30, 0.8), rgba(60, 60, 60, 0.8)); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-left-radius: 2px; border-bottom-right-radius: 2px; border-top-left-radius: 2px; border-top-right-radius: 2px; cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 10px; margin: 5px; position: absolute; width: 322px;"><span class="mejs-time-loaded" style="background-image: -webkit-linear-gradient(top, rgba(44, 124, 145, 0.8), rgba(78, 183, 212, 0.8)); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-left-radius: 2px; border-bottom-right-radius: 2px; border-top-left-radius: 2px; border-top-right-radius: 2px; cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 10px; position: absolute; width: 0px;"></span><span class="mejs-time-current" style="background-image: -webkit-linear-gradient(top, rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.901961), rgba(200, 200, 200, 0.8)); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-left-radius: 2px; border-bottom-right-radius: 2px; border-top-left-radius: 2px; border-top-right-radius: 2px; cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 10px; position: absolute; width: 0px;"></span></span></div>
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<span class="mejs-duration" style="display: block; float: left; line-height: 12px; margin: 1px 2px 0px 0px; width: auto;">00:00</span></div>
<div class="mejs-button mejs-volume-button mejs-mute" style="background-position: 0px 50%; border: 0px; float: left; font-size: 11px; height: 26px; line-height: 11px; list-style-type: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; position: relative; width: 26px;">
<button aria-controls="mep_1" style="background-image: url(http://d2u8j2rbuzdexy.cloudfront.net/discern/wp-content/plugins/media-element-html5-video-and-audio-player/mediaelement/controls.png); background-position: -16px -16px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border: 0px; cursor: pointer; display: block; font-size: 0px; height: 16px; line-height: 0; margin: 7px 5px; padding: 0px; position: absolute; width: 16px;" title="Mute Toggle" type="button"></button></div>
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<button aria-controls="mep_1" style="background-image: url(http://d2u8j2rbuzdexy.cloudfront.net/discern/wp-content/plugins/media-element-html5-video-and-audio-player/mediaelement/controls.png); background-position: -32px 0px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border: 0px; cursor: pointer; display: block; font-size: 0px; height: 16px; line-height: 0; margin: 7px 5px; padding: 0px; position: absolute; width: 16px;" title="Fullscreen" type="button"></button></div>
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If you’re familiar with the <a href="http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/" style="color: #996600;">Fighting for the Faith</a> program of Chris Rosebrough then you’ll know that he regularly features updates from a spiritual looney tune named <a href="http://www.xpministries.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=27" style="color: #996600;">Patricia King</a>. Yep, BC considers her as a friend as well:</div>
<blockquote style="border-left-color: rgb(51, 0, 0); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 0px;">
<div style="margin-bottom: 15px;">
<img alt="BCF3" class="align size-full wp-image-82494" height="47" src="http://i1.wp.com/apprising.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/BCF3.jpg?resize=187%2C47" width="187" /><br />(<a href="http://www.ibethel.org/bethel-websites/friends-of-bethel" style="color: #996600;">source</a>)</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="margin-bottom: 15px;">
Here is Patricia King teaching about a “breaker anointing,” where supposedly God makes your faith stronger; but before she can inform us that the breaker anointing is Jesus, she allegedly ah, experiences, er…<em>some</em>thing:</div>
<div class="mejs-container mejs-player mejs-video" id="mep_2" style="background-color: black; font-family: Helvetica, Arial; height: 270px; margin: 15px 0px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; width: 480px;">
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<embed allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" bgcolor="#000000" flashvars="id=me_flash_2&isvideo=true&autoplay=false&preload=none&width=480&startvolume=0.8&timerrate=250&height=270&file=http%3A%2F%2Fapprising.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F01%2FKing.mov" height="270" id="me_flash_2" loop="false" name="me_flash_2" play="true" pluginspage="//www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" quality="high" src="http://apprising.org/discern/wp-content/plugins/media-element-html5-video-and-audio-player/mediaelement/flashmediaelement.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="480" wmode="transparent"></embed></div>
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<div class="mejs-button mejs-playpause-button mejs-play" style="background-position: 0px 50%; border: 0px; float: left; font-size: 11px; height: 26px; line-height: 11px; list-style-type: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 26px;">
<button aria-controls="mep_2" style="background-image: url(http://d2u8j2rbuzdexy.cloudfront.net/discern/wp-content/plugins/media-element-html5-video-and-audio-player/mediaelement/controls.png); background-position: 0px 0px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border: 0px; cursor: pointer; display: block; font-size: 0px; height: 16px; line-height: 0; margin: 7px 5px; padding: 0px; position: absolute; width: 16px;" title="Play/Pause" type="button"></button></div>
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<span class="mejs-time-total" style="background-image: -webkit-linear-gradient(top, rgba(30, 30, 30, 0.8), rgba(60, 60, 60, 0.8)); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-left-radius: 2px; border-bottom-right-radius: 2px; border-top-left-radius: 2px; border-top-right-radius: 2px; cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 10px; margin: 5px; position: absolute; width: 322px;"><span class="mejs-time-loaded" style="background-image: -webkit-linear-gradient(top, rgba(44, 124, 145, 0.8), rgba(78, 183, 212, 0.8)); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-left-radius: 2px; border-bottom-right-radius: 2px; border-top-left-radius: 2px; border-top-right-radius: 2px; cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 10px; position: absolute; width: 0px;"></span><span class="mejs-time-current" style="background-image: -webkit-linear-gradient(top, rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.901961), rgba(200, 200, 200, 0.8)); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-left-radius: 2px; border-bottom-right-radius: 2px; border-top-left-radius: 2px; border-top-right-radius: 2px; cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 10px; position: absolute; width: 0px;"></span></span></div>
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<span class="mejs-duration" style="display: block; float: left; line-height: 12px; margin: 1px 2px 0px 0px; width: auto;">00:00</span></div>
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<button aria-controls="mep_2" style="background-image: url(http://d2u8j2rbuzdexy.cloudfront.net/discern/wp-content/plugins/media-element-html5-video-and-audio-player/mediaelement/controls.png); background-position: -16px -16px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border: 0px; cursor: pointer; display: block; font-size: 0px; height: 16px; line-height: 0; margin: 7px 5px; padding: 0px; position: absolute; width: 16px;" title="Mute Toggle" type="button"></button></div>
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<button aria-controls="mep_2" style="background-image: url(http://d2u8j2rbuzdexy.cloudfront.net/discern/wp-content/plugins/media-element-html5-video-and-audio-player/mediaelement/controls.png); background-position: -32px 0px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; border: 0px; cursor: pointer; display: block; font-size: 0px; height: 16px; line-height: 0; margin: 7px 5px; padding: 0px; position: absolute; width: 16px;" title="Fullscreen" type="button"></button></div>
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Finally, while there are plenty of other highly questionable friends of Bethel, this one tells you all you need to know about just how far out into spiritual outer space this BC gathering truly is:</div>
<blockquote style="border-left-color: rgb(51, 0, 0); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 0px;">
<div style="margin-bottom: 15px;">
<img alt="BCF5" class="align size-full wp-image-82507" height="44" src="http://i1.wp.com/apprising.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/BCF5.jpg?resize=201%2C44" width="201" /><br />(<a href="http://www.ibethel.org/bethel-websites/friends-of-bethel" style="color: #996600;">source</a>)</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="margin-bottom: 15px;">
You may pick your jaw up off your computer desk now; sadly, it is indeed <em>that</em> <a href="http://apprising.org/2012/12/16/apprising-ministries-exclusive-god-struck-down-malcolm-wicks-for-opposing-todd-bentley/" style="color: #996600;">Todd Bentley</a>:</div>
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Just more reasons to be very wary of this Jesus Culture “Movement.” And it looks to me that with <em>Passion 2013</em> Louie Giglio has now aligned his <a href="http://www.268generation.com/" style="color: #996600;">268 Generation</a> aka the <a href="http://www.268generation.com/3.0/#!declaration" style="color: #996600;">Passion Movement</a> to the <a href="http://www.jesusculture.com/fuel" style="color: #996600;">Jesus Culture Movement</a>.<a class="footnote-link footnote-identifier-link" href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/04/friends-of-bethel-church-home-of-jesus-culture/#footnote_4_82465" id="identifier_4_82465" style="bottom: 5px; color: #996600; margin: 0px 0px 0px 2px; position: relative;" title="http://www.268generation.com/3.0/#!about/story, accessed 1-4-13.">5</a></div>
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With this in mind then, let’s think back to another of JC’s mentors, the aforementioned NAR “Apostle” Lou Engle, and what he prophesied<a class="footnote-link footnote-identifier-link" href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/04/friends-of-bethel-church-home-of-jesus-culture/#footnote_5_82465" id="identifier_5_82465" style="bottom: 5px; color: #996600; margin: 0px 0px 0px 2px; position: relative;" title="It’s part of the scrolling messages at the very bottom of the page here: http://bit.ly/WjjnyA, accessed 1-4-13.">6</a> <em>Jesus Culture</em> will be a part of:</div>
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<img alt="J1" height="211" src="http://i0.wp.com/apprising.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/J1.jpg?resize=546%2C211" width="546" /></div>
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Filling stadiums like, say, the Georgia Dome with 60,000? It makes me wonder; <a href="http://www.ihopkc.org/" style="color: #996600;">IHOP</a> coming to Passion 2014…</div>
<h2 style="color: #330000; font-size: 14pt; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: -1px; line-height: 24px; margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px;">
Further reading</h2>
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<li style="background-image: url(http://d2u8j2rbuzdexy.cloudfront.net/discern/wp-content/themes/Apprising/images/zekebullet.gif); background-position: 0px 4px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; list-style-type: none; padding: 0px 0px 2px 14px;"><a href="http://apprising.org/2012/01/06/beth-moore-and-john-piper-lead-lectio-divina-lite-at-passion-2012/" style="color: #996600;">BETH MOORE AND JOHN PIPER LEAD LECTIO DIVINA-LITE AT PASSION 2012</a></li>
<li style="background-image: url(http://d2u8j2rbuzdexy.cloudfront.net/discern/wp-content/themes/Apprising/images/zekebullet.gif); background-position: 0px 4px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; list-style-type: none; padding: 0px 0px 2px 14px;"><a href="http://apprising.org/2011/09/14/nar-apostlette-cindy-jacobs-on-authority-over-weather/" style="color: #996600;">NAR APOSTLETTE CINDY JACOBS ON AUTHORITY OVER WEATHER</a></li>
<li style="background-image: url(http://d2u8j2rbuzdexy.cloudfront.net/discern/wp-content/themes/Apprising/images/zekebullet.gif); background-position: 0px 4px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; list-style-type: none; padding: 0px 0px 2px 14px;"><a href="http://apprising.org/2011/11/07/sandy-simpson-the-new-apostolic-reformation/" style="color: #996600;">SANDY SIMPSON: THE NEW APOSTOLIC REFORMATION</a></li>
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<h2 style="color: #330000; font-size: 14pt; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: -1px; line-height: 24px; margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px;">
Endnotes</h2>
<ol class="footnotes">
<li class="footnote" id="footnote_0_82465" style="list-style-type: decimal;"><a href="http://www.facebook.com/jesusculture" style="color: #996600;">http://www.facebook.com/jesusculture</a>, accessed 1-4-13. <a class="footnote-link footnote-back-link" href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/04/friends-of-bethel-church-home-of-jesus-culture/#identifier_0_82465" style="color: #996600;">↩</a></li>
<li class="footnote" id="footnote_1_82465" style="list-style-type: decimal;"><a href="http://bit.ly/WlEQY0" style="color: #996600;">http://bit.ly/WlEQY0</a>, accessed 1-4-13. <a class="footnote-link footnote-back-link" href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/04/friends-of-bethel-church-home-of-jesus-culture/#identifier_1_82465" style="color: #996600;">↩</a></li>
<li class="footnote" id="footnote_2_82465" style="list-style-type: decimal;"><a href="http://ti.me/qhU5V" style="color: #996600;">http://ti.me/qhU5V</a>, accessed 1-4-13. <a class="footnote-link footnote-back-link" href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/04/friends-of-bethel-church-home-of-jesus-culture/#identifier_2_82465" style="color: #996600;">↩</a></li>
<li class="footnote" id="footnote_3_82465" style="list-style-type: decimal;">The link is near the bottom of the page here: <a href="http://www.ibethel.org/links" style="color: #996600;">http://www.ibethel.org/links</a>, accessed 1-4-13. <a class="footnote-link footnote-back-link" href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/04/friends-of-bethel-church-home-of-jesus-culture/#identifier_3_82465" style="color: #996600;">↩</a></li>
<li class="footnote" id="footnote_4_82465" style="list-style-type: decimal;"><a href="http://www.268generation.com/3.0/#!about/story" style="color: #996600;">http://www.268generation.com/3.0/#!about/story</a>, accessed 1-4-13. <a class="footnote-link footnote-back-link" href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/04/friends-of-bethel-church-home-of-jesus-culture/#identifier_4_82465" style="color: #996600;">↩</a></li>
<li class="footnote" id="footnote_5_82465" style="list-style-type: decimal;">It’s part of the scrolling messages at the very bottom of the page here: <a href="http://bit.ly/WjjnyA" style="color: #996600;">http://bit.ly/WjjnyA</a>, accessed 1-4-13. <a class="footnote-link footnote-back-link" href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/04/friends-of-bethel-church-home-of-jesus-culture/#identifier_5_82465" style="color: #996600;">↩</a></li>
</ol>
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</h1>
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Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-43105357807704084502013-01-02T20:41:00.000-08:002013-01-02T20:41:39.731-08:00LOUIE GIGLIO, PASSION 2013, AND JESUS CULTURE<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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(reprinted in full from <a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/02/louie-giglio-passion-2013-and-jesus-culture/" target="_blank">Apprising Ministries</a>)<br />By <a href="http://apprising.org/author/ken-silva-pastor-teacher/" rel="author" style="color: #996600;" title="Posts by Ken Silva pastor-teacher">Ken Silva </a></h3>
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<a href="http://apprising.org/author/ken-silva-pastor-teacher/" rel="author" style="color: #996600;" title="Posts by Ken Silva pastor-teacher">pastor-teacher</a> on Jan 2, 2013 in <a href="http://apprising.org/category/am-missives/" rel="category tag" style="color: #996600;" title="View all posts in AM Missives">AM Missives</a>, <a href="http://apprising.org/category/current-issues/" rel="category tag" style="color: #996600;" title="View all posts in Current Issues">Current Issues</a>, <a href="http://apprising.org/category/features/" rel="category tag" style="color: #996600;" title="View all posts in Features">Features</a></div>
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<img alt="AA" class="align size-full wp-image-82317" height="200" src="http://i0.wp.com/apprising.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/AA.jpg?resize=596%2C200" width="596" /></div>
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I told you here at <a href="http://apprising.org/" style="color: #996600;">Apprising Ministries</a> in <a href="http://apprising.org/2012/09/21/beth-moore-and-john-piper-set-for-passion-2013-with-louis-giglio/" style="color: #996600;">Beth Moore And John Piper Set For Passion 2013 With Louie Giglio</a> that once again those two well-respected mainstream evangelicals would be appearing at Giglio’s Passion conference which, as of this writing, is in full swing.</div>
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Here’s some notables in the lineup for this year:</div>
<blockquote style="border-left-color: rgb(51, 0, 0); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 0px;">
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<img alt="" height="302" src="http://i2.wp.com/apprising.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Passion.jpg?resize=251%2C302" title="Passion" width="251" /><br />
(<a href="http://268generation.com/passion2013/about/who/" style="color: #996600;">source</a>)</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="margin-bottom: 15px;">
Giglio, Chan, Moore and Piper return to Passion from last year and now we have sinfully ecumenical emerging musician David Crowder<a class="footnote-link footnote-identifier-link" href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/02/louie-giglio-passion-2013-and-jesus-culture/#footnote_0_82314" id="identifier_0_82314" style="bottom: 5px; color: #996600; font-size: 13px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 2px; position: relative;" title="http://defendingcontending.com/2010/02/28/david-crowders-crowded-theology/, accessed 1-2-13.">1</a> added to the mix. Another couple of special guests are:</div>
<blockquote style="border-left-color: rgb(51, 0, 0); border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 0px;">
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<img alt="AA0" class="align size-full wp-image-82322" height="120" src="http://i1.wp.com/apprising.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/AA0.jpg?resize=251%2C120" width="251" /><br />
(<a href="http://268generation.com/passion2013/about/who/" style="color: #996600;">source</a>)</div>
</blockquote>
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I covered ecumenical evangelical magisterium candidate Judah Smith previously in <a href="http://apprising.org/2012/10/19/judah-smith-with-justin-biebers-swag-coach-ryan-good/" style="color: #996600;">Judah Smith With Justin Bieber’s Swag Coach Ryan Good</a> and <a href="http://apprising.org/2010/09/29/charismatic-quasi-prosperity-preacher-judah-smith/" style="color: #996600;">Charismatic Quasi-Prosperity Preacher Judah Smith</a>; seen below in a skateboarding contest with pop singer Justin Bieber:</div>
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The focus here is upon a group called <a href="http://www.jesusculture.com/" style="color: #996600;">Jesus Culture</a>, which had previously been flying under the radar. Not anymore. In <a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/01/jesus-culture-and-judah-smith-to-join-piper-moore-chan-and-others-at-giglios-passion-2013/" style="color: #996600;">Jesus Culture And Judah Smith To Join Piper, Moore, Chan And Others At Giglio’s Passion 2013</a> by <a href="http://christianresearchnetwork.com/" style="color: #996600;">Christian Research Network</a> Associate Editor Erin Benziger she tells us:</div>
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The group’s website tells us that it was spawned out of the youth group at Bill Johnson’s <a href="http://bethelredding.com/" style="color: #996600;">Bethel Church</a> in Redding, California.</div>
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For those who are unfamiliar with Johnson and Bethel, the following video shares some of the “signs and wonders” shenanigans that take place there, and also demonstrates some classic Bill Johnson Scripture-twisting:</div>
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<span class="embed-youtube" style="display: block; text-align: center;"><iframe class="youtube-player" frameborder="0" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lvJMPccZR2Y?version=3&rel=0&fs=1&showsearch=0&showinfo=1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent" type="text/html" width="640"></iframe></span><br />
(<a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/01/jesus-culture-and-judah-smith-to-join-piper-moore-chan-and-others-at-giglios-passion-2013/" style="color: #996600;">source</a>)</div>
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Since Bill Johnson isn’t the focal point, here I’ll just let you know that:</div>
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Bill and Brenda Johnson are the Senior Pastors of Bethel Church in Redding, California. Bethel Church is firmly aligned with the Word-Faith movement and identifies with the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), or the Third Wave Movement with its “prophets,” “apostles,” and alleged manifestions. Bill Johnson is called an “apostle” by C. Peter Wagner (See <em> TBC</em> 5/97, 2/07). His theology has amounted to what some call a “<em> de facto</em> denial of the deity of Christ.” (<a href="http://www.thebereancall.org/content/august-2012-q-and-a-1" style="color: #996600;">source</a>)</div>
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Obviously, we’re dealing with an absolute theological train wreck at <a href="http://bethelredding.com/" style="color: #996600;">Bethel Church</a> (BC). However, as Benziger points out, this is the pastor and pastrix and church from which the <a href="http://www.jesusculture.com/about" style="color: #996600;">Jesus Culture</a> (JC) phenomenon has come.</div>
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This isn’t guilt-by-association; it is a fact. JC tells us so right on their <em>Facebook</em> page, as you see below:</div>
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<img alt="JC" class="align size-full wp-image-82246" height="273" src="http://i0.wp.com/apprising.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/JC.jpg?resize=446%2C273" width="446" /><br />
(<a href="http://www.facebook.com/jesusculture" style="color: #996600;">source</a></div>
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So, JC itself is quick to point out that they’re not “just a band, but…a ministry of Bethel Church.” Therefore, now that Louie Giglio has made the decision to bring JC to his <em>Passion 2013</em>, JC itself witnesses for BC.</div>
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As such, we have every right to examine the theology taught to JC by pastor Bill and pastrix Brenda at their BC since they are an extension of that church. This all goes to the credibility of JC and their ministry.</div>
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In closing this out. for now, we return to Erin Benziger’s earlier post under the subheading <em>The “Teaching” of Jesus Culture </em>where she informs us:</div>
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Jesus Culture does more than simply play music, however. It seems that, at times, various members of the group also may preach or teach. Below is [a video of] Jesus Culture member <a href="http://www.jesusculture.com/music/kim-walker-smith" style="color: #996600;">Kim Walker-Smith</a> preaching to a large crowd at the Awakening 2011 event, and offering a rather detailed account of her own personal encounter with “Jesus.” (<a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/01/jesus-culture-and-judah-smith-to-join-piper-moore-chan-and-others-at-giglios-passion-2013/" style="color: #996600;">source</a>)</div>
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Walker-Smith’s JC bio contains confirmation that for her and husband Skyler, “Bethel Church in Redding, CA is our home church,” and this peculiar phrase that sounds like a Jehovah’s Witness: “Holy Spirit is my friend.”</div>
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As Benziger pointed out, the video clip below comes from a longer video entitled <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69XbbLb45ws" style="color: #996600;">Preaching Kim Walker-Awakening 2011</a>, which is 47:36 minutes of a rambling hyper-charismatic message of seeking “God’s presence.”</div>
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The clip comes about two-thirds of the way in. I caution you that what you’re about to hear quickly goes from mildly annoying to blasphemous. It also become quite clear that Kim Walker-Smith is spiritually clueless.</div>
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Before we get to that, it’s important that I give you the proper context from which to view the over-arching mission of JC. We get a clearer picture as to just how nefarious this group is spiritually looking at<a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20110703122815/http://www.jesusculture.com/awakening/" style="color: #996600;">Awakening 2011</a> (A2011).</div>
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You need to understand that A2011 was put on by the JC ministry itself, as in <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20110703122815/http://www.jesusculture.com/awakening/" style="color: #996600;">The Jesus Culture Awakening 2011</a> and was:</div>
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<img alt="J" class="align size-full wp-image-82357" height="85" src="http://i0.wp.com/apprising.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/J.jpg?resize=670%2C85" width="670" /><br />
(<a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20110703122815/http://www.jesusculture.com/awakening/" style="color: #996600;">source</a>)</div>
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Now here was the lineup for this JC A2011 followed by an exclusive <a href="http://apprising.org/" style="color: #996600;">Apprising Ministries</a> video clip of the main event promo combined with those of JC’s pastor Bill Johnson, Reinhard Bonnke, NAR apostlette Cindy Jacobs<a class="footnote-link footnote-identifier-link" href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/02/louie-giglio-passion-2013-and-jesus-culture/#footnote_1_82314" id="identifier_1_82314" style="bottom: 5px; color: #996600; font-size: 13px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 2px; position: relative;" title="http://www.narwatch.com/2012/03/01/new-apostolic-prayer-guide-attacks-california-labor-unions-prepares-for-election-2012/, accessed 1-2-13.">2</a> and NAR apostle Lou Engle<a class="footnote-link footnote-identifier-link" href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/02/louie-giglio-passion-2013-and-jesus-culture/#footnote_2_82314" id="identifier_2_82314" style="bottom: 5px; color: #996600; font-size: 13px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 2px; position: relative;" title="http://www.narwatch.com/2010/10/17/lou-engle-only-one-of-many-of-sen-brownbacks-nar-apostle-problems/, accessed 1-2-13.">3</a>:</div>
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<img alt="J0" class="align size-full wp-image-82359" height="318" src="http://i0.wp.com/apprising.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/J0.jpg?resize=288%2C318" width="288" /><br />
(<a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20110703122815/http://www.jesusculture.com/awakening/" style="color: #996600;">source</a>)</div>
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Here’s what “apostle” Lou Engle prophesied for <em>Jesus Culture</em> to be a part of and what Louie Giglio’s now brought to Passion 2013 for his <em>Jesus Generation</em>:</div>
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<img alt="J1" class="align size-full wp-image-82380" height="211" src="http://i0.wp.com/apprising.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/J1.jpg?resize=546%2C211" width="546" /><br />
<a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20110703122815/http://www.jesusculture.com/awakening/" style="color: #996600;">(source</a>)</div>
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Against this Erin Benziger gives you a little preview of the fables you’re about to hear from Jesus Culture preachette Kim Walker-Smith. Benziger’s actually uses a very understated tone as she tells us:</div>
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Kim Walker-Smith claims that she spoke with Jesus, that He cuddled her, and that she saw God the Father. And while she acknowledges that such visions are not regular occurrences, she nevertheless indicates that she’s had multiple encounters with Him.</div>
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One wonders how many people sitting amongst that large crowd left disappointed that night that they had not “encountered” Jesus as Kim Walker-Smith claimed that she had. Walker-Smith’s recollection of the vision is natural, and seems to presume that everyone should experience such a thing. (<a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/01/jesus-culture-and-judah-smith-to-join-piper-moore-chan-and-others-at-giglios-passion-2013/" style="color: #996600;">source</a>)</div>
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Here’s the bottom line: All of this kind of WF/NAR skubalon is what Louie Giglio, John Piper and <a href="http://apprising.org/category/beth-moore/" style="color: #996600;">Beth Moore</a> have now just helped expose your youth to at Passion 2013. Are we really ok with that?</div>
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Further reading</h2>
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<li style="background-image: url(http://d2u8j2rbuzdexy.cloudfront.net/discern/wp-content/themes/Apprising/images/zekebullet.gif); background-position: 0px 4px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; list-style-type: none; padding: 0px 0px 2px 14px;"><a href="http://apprising.org/2011/05/30/john-piper-rick-warren-foster-williardism/" style="color: #996600;">JOHN PIPER, RICK WARREN & FOSTER-WILLARDISM</a></li>
<li style="background-image: url(http://d2u8j2rbuzdexy.cloudfront.net/discern/wp-content/themes/Apprising/images/zekebullet.gif); background-position: 0px 4px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; list-style-type: none; padding: 0px 0px 2px 14px;"><a href="http://apprising.org/2012/09/23/beth-moore-and-ken-silva-discuss-her-demonic-vision/" style="color: #996600;">BETH MOORE AND KEN SILVA DISCUSS HER DEMONIC VISION</a></li>
<li style="background-image: url(http://d2u8j2rbuzdexy.cloudfront.net/discern/wp-content/themes/Apprising/images/zekebullet.gif); background-position: 0px 4px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; list-style-type: none; padding: 0px 0px 2px 14px;"><a href="http://apprising.org/2012/08/14/wretched-run-from-the-new-apostolic-reformation/" style="color: #996600;">WRETCHED: RUN FROM THE NEW APOSTOLIC REFORMATION</a></li>
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Endnotes</h2>
<ol class="footnotes">
<li class="footnote" id="footnote_0_82314" style="list-style-type: decimal;">http://defendingcontending.com/2010/02/28/david-crowders-crowded-theology/, accessed 1-2-13. <a class="footnote-link footnote-back-link" href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/02/louie-giglio-passion-2013-and-jesus-culture/#identifier_0_82314" style="color: #996600; font-size: 13px;">↩</a></li>
<li class="footnote" id="footnote_1_82314" style="list-style-type: decimal;"><a href="http://www.narwatch.com/2012/03/01/new-apostolic-prayer-guide-attacks-california-labor-unions-prepares-for-election-2012/" style="color: #996600;">http://www.narwatch.com/2012/03/01/new-apostolic-prayer-guide-attacks-california-labor-unions-prepares-for-election-2012/</a>, accessed 1-2-13. <a class="footnote-link footnote-back-link" href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/02/louie-giglio-passion-2013-and-jesus-culture/#identifier_1_82314" style="color: #996600; font-size: 13px;">↩</a></li>
<li class="footnote" id="footnote_2_82314" style="list-style-type: decimal;"><a href="http://www.narwatch.com/2010/10/17/lou-engle-only-one-of-many-of-sen-brownbacks-nar-apostle-problems/" style="color: #996600;">http://www.narwatch.com/2010/10/17/lou-engle-only-one-of-many-of-sen-brownbacks-nar-apostle-problems/</a>, accessed 1-2-13. <a class="footnote-link footnote-back-link" href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/02/louie-giglio-passion-2013-and-jesus-culture/#identifier_2_82314" style="color: #996600; font-size: 13px;">↩</a></li>
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Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-63051634864200735212013-01-01T19:46:00.000-08:002013-01-01T19:46:17.578-08:00JESUS CULTURE AND JUDAH SMITH TO JOIN PIPER, MOORE, CHAN AND OTHERS AT GIGLIO’S PASSION 2013<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<em>By <a href="http://christianresearchnetwork.com/" style="color: #996600;">Christian Research Network</a> Associate Editor Erin Benziger of <a href="http://revelation22-20.blogspot.com/" style="color: #996600;">Do Not Be Surprised…</a></em><br /><em>This is a repost of <a href="http://www.donotbesurprised.com/2013/01/jesus-culture-and-judah-smith-to-join.html" style="color: #996600;">an original article on Do Not Be Surprised…</a></em></div>
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<img alt="JC" class="alignnone size-full wp-image-82246" data-recalc-dims="1" src="http://i0.wp.com/apprising.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/JC.jpg?resize=446%2C273" style="clear: both; margin: 5px 0px 5px 40px;" /></div>
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A new year means a fresh batch of conferences. And a fresh batch of conferences means a whole new crop of questionable decisions being made by the leaders and organizers of those gatherings.</div>
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To start off the 2013 conference season is Louie Giglio’s <a href="http://268generation.com/passion2013/" style="color: #996600;">Passion 2013</a>. Held at the Georgia Dome in Atlanta, it will run from 1–4 January. Giglio aims this gathering specifically at young people, and according to the event’s <a href="http://268generation.com/passion2013/about/story/" style="color: #996600;">website</a>, last year saw “more than 40,000 students and leaders from around the world” at the US event.</div>
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<a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qeBn87wCUv4/UOIB3-Q5msI/AAAAAAAAHGw/Wz545XAYcBs/s1600/Screen+Shot+2012-12-31+at+4.12.05+PM.png" style="color: #996600;"><img alt="" border="0" data-recalc-dims="1" src="http://i2.wp.com/1.bp.blogspot.com/-qeBn87wCUv4/UOIB3-Q5msI/AAAAAAAAHGw/Wz545XAYcBs/s640/Screen+Shot+2012-12-31+at+4.12.05+PM.png?resize=640%2C72" style="border: none;" /></a></div>
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<tr style="margin: auto;"><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(229, 224, 195); margin: auto; padding: 8px; vertical-align: top;"><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hCvTq2xgTLk/UOIB4e2CdnI/AAAAAAAAHG4/Bcf4enc6Sdg/s1600/Screen+Shot+2012-12-31+at+4.12.12+PM.png" style="color: #996600;"><img alt="" border="0" data-recalc-dims="1" src="http://i0.wp.com/1.bp.blogspot.com/-hCvTq2xgTLk/UOIB4e2CdnI/AAAAAAAAHG4/Bcf4enc6Sdg/s640/Screen+Shot+2012-12-31+at+4.12.12+PM.png?resize=640%2C48" style="border: none;" /></a></td></tr>
<tr style="margin: auto;"><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(229, 224, 195); margin: auto; padding: 8px; vertical-align: top;"><a href="http://268generation.com/passion2013/about/story/" style="color: #996600;">Source</a></td></tr>
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Passion targets the younger generation with such <a href="http://268generation.com/passion2013/about/who/" style="color: #996600;">high-profile names</a> as Beth Moore, John Piper, Francis Chan, rapper Lecrae and this year, pastor Judah Smith of <a href="http://thecity.org/" style="color: #996600;">The City Church</a> in Seattle and popular Christian band, Jesus Culture.</div>
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Read <a href="http://apprising.org/2013/01/01/jesus-culture-and-judah-smith-to-join-piper-moore-chan-and-others-at-giglios-passion-2013/" target="_blank">FULL ARTICLE HERE</a></div>
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Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-80901938842362782952012-08-31T23:23:00.001-07:002012-08-31T23:23:45.427-07:00Paul Washer- "Our Power is the Gospel"<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="270" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Xuj8lAFc1Q8?fs=1" width="480"></iframe>Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-66144948249137780932012-08-13T21:08:00.000-07:002012-08-13T21:08:29.702-07:00Jesus Culture 2012 Conference Review - Video Interview, Los Angeles<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgT5YbG1cwTzf8_8exFvl6Xom-qQif4NVBl5dfSBoajlArH-YoI30BLOj9gw7q_bFJH5NrYJgbHL3PxgLHrALqsS7kZ4-V8stGnxYpJZ0ZAlHcqy5k7lUQJVaaq2z7dmKvSqT2PDhF81lhA/s1600/JC+LA+08+12.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="278" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgT5YbG1cwTzf8_8exFvl6Xom-qQif4NVBl5dfSBoajlArH-YoI30BLOj9gw7q_bFJH5NrYJgbHL3PxgLHrALqsS7kZ4-V8stGnxYpJZ0ZAlHcqy5k7lUQJVaaq2z7dmKvSqT2PDhF81lhA/s640/JC+LA+08+12.jpg" width="640" /></a></div>
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: large;">What is taught at Jesus Culture Conferences?</span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;">What is learned by those who attend?</span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: large;">Banning Liebscher, Bill Johnson, and other Jesus Culture leaders preach "revival", "spreading the message", "signs and wonders", an "open heaven," and a "billion soul harvest. "</span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: large;">Are these things the real deal?</span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: large;">Do they preach Jesus Christ and His gospel?</span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: large;">What is happening to those who are attending?</span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-size: large;">This interviewer took his camera to the Jesus Culture Conference in Los Angeles in August 2012, to learn what Jesus Culture followers are learning, then to examine this in light of the Scriptures.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span>
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<span style="font-size: large;">May you be edified, challenged, and grow in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ: </span></div>
Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-39283786623515584172012-08-03T04:25:00.003-07:002012-08-03T04:33:22.585-07:00Follow NotBillJohnson, Now on Twitter<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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I am not a real prophet, but I play one on iBethelTV.</div>
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You'd think that if my friends & I were truly bringing new revelation & prophecies that we <span style="background-color: white; text-align: right;">wouldn't be constantly contradicting one another.</span></div>
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If we do not worship and long for supernatural experiences we will be unable to hear the voice of God and to be lead by Him.</div>
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"Far be it from me to preach law & gospel, sin & grace, but it's better that I scratch people's ears than preach the Word." - 2 Billemon 5:8</div>
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"God has given man sovereignty over everything that happens in the earth & only with our permission is He able to intervene." - Billemon 1:3</div>
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<a class="account-group js-account-group js-action-profile js-user-profile-link" data-user-id="636505924" href="https://twitter.com/NotBillJohnson" style="clear: left; color: #999999; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em; outline: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><img alt="Not Bill Johnson" class="avatar js-action-profile-avatar" src="https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2401047194/bill_johnson_1__normal.jpg" style="border-bottom-left-radius: 5px; border-bottom-right-radius: 5px; border-top-left-radius: 5px; border-top-right-radius: 5px; border: 0px; height: 48px; left: 12px; position: absolute; top: 12px; width: 48px;" /><strong class="fullname js-action-profile-name show-popup-with-id" style="color: #333333;">Not Bill Johnson</strong> <span class="username js-action-profile-name" style="direction: ltr; font-size: 12px; unicode-bidi: embed;"><s style="color: #bbbbbb; text-decoration: none;">@</s><b style="font-weight: normal;">NotBillJohnson</b></span></a><small class="time" style="color: #bbbbbb; float: right; font-size: 12px; margin-right: 5px; margin-top: 1px; position: relative;"><a class="tweet-timestamp js-permalink" href="https://twitter.com/NotBillJohnson/status/229977883064549376" style="color: #999999; outline: 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="11:32 AM - 30 Jul 12"><span class="js-short-timestamp _old-timestamp" data-long-form="true" data-time="1343665974000">30 Jul</span></a></small></div>
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<a class="account-group js-account-group js-action-profile js-user-profile-link" data-user-id="636505924" href="https://twitter.com/NotBillJohnson" style="clear: left; color: #999999; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em; outline: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><img alt="Not Bill Johnson" class="avatar js-action-profile-avatar" src="https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2401047194/bill_johnson_1__normal.jpg" style="border-bottom-left-radius: 5px; border-bottom-right-radius: 5px; border-top-left-radius: 5px; border-top-right-radius: 5px; border: 0px; height: 48px; left: 12px; position: absolute; top: 12px; width: 48px;" /><strong class="fullname js-action-profile-name show-popup-with-id" style="color: #333333;">Not Bill Johnson</strong> <span class="username js-action-profile-name" style="direction: ltr; font-size: 12px; unicode-bidi: embed;"><s style="color: #bbbbbb; text-decoration: none;">@</s><b style="font-weight: normal;">NotBillJohnson</b></span></a><small class="time" style="color: #bbbbbb; float: right; font-size: 12px; margin-top: 1px; position: relative;"><a class="tweet-timestamp js-permalink" href="https://twitter.com/NotBillJohnson/status/229328229087981568" style="color: #999999; outline: 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="4:31 PM - 28 Jul 12"><span class="js-short-timestamp _old-timestamp" data-long-form="true" data-time="1343511085000">28 Jul</span></a></small></div>
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"Without new revelation the people perish." - Billemon 12:38</div>
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<a class="account-group js-account-group js-action-profile js-user-profile-link" data-user-id="636505924" href="https://twitter.com/NotBillJohnson" style="clear: left; color: #999999; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em; outline: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><img alt="Not Bill Johnson" class="avatar js-action-profile-avatar" src="https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2401047194/bill_johnson_1__normal.jpg" style="border-bottom-left-radius: 5px; border-bottom-right-radius: 5px; border-top-left-radius: 5px; border-top-right-radius: 5px; border: 0px; height: 48px; left: 12px; position: absolute; top: 12px; width: 48px;" /><strong class="fullname js-action-profile-name show-popup-with-id" style="color: #333333;">Not Bill Johnson</strong> <span class="username js-action-profile-name" style="direction: ltr; font-size: 12px; unicode-bidi: embed;"><s style="color: #bbbbbb; text-decoration: none;">@</s><b style="font-weight: normal;">NotBillJohnson</b></span></a><small class="time" style="color: #bbbbbb; float: right; font-size: 12px; margin-top: 1px; position: relative;"><a class="tweet-timestamp js-permalink" href="https://twitter.com/NotBillJohnson/status/228991600259383296" style="color: #999999; outline: 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="6:13 PM - 27 Jul 12"><span class="js-short-timestamp _old-timestamp" data-long-form="true" data-time="1343430826000">27 Jul</span></a></small></div>
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Healing is far more important than the forgiveness of sins since it can be visibly seen. This is why it is the focus of my ministry.</div>
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Someone with a spiritual experience is never at the mercy of someone with a Biblical argument.</div>
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<a class="account-group js-account-group js-action-profile js-user-profile-link" data-user-id="636505924" href="https://twitter.com/NotBillJohnson" style="clear: left; color: #999999; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em; outline: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><img alt="Not Bill Johnson" class="avatar js-action-profile-avatar" src="https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2401047194/bill_johnson_1__normal.jpg" style="border-bottom-left-radius: 5px; border-bottom-right-radius: 5px; border-top-left-radius: 5px; border-top-right-radius: 5px; border: 0px; height: 48px; left: 12px; position: absolute; top: 12px; width: 48px;" /><strong class="fullname js-action-profile-name show-popup-with-id" style="color: #333333;">Not Bill Johnson</strong> <span class="username js-action-profile-name" style="direction: ltr; font-size: 12px; unicode-bidi: embed;"><s style="color: #bbbbbb; text-decoration: none;">@</s><b style="font-weight: normal;">NotBillJohnson</b></span></a><small class="time" style="color: #bbbbbb; float: right; font-size: 12px; margin-top: 1px; position: relative;"><a class="tweet-timestamp js-permalink" href="https://twitter.com/NotBillJohnson/status/228624336335028224" style="color: #999999; outline: 0px; text-decoration: none;" title="5:54 PM - 26 Jul 12"><span class="js-short-timestamp _old-timestamp" data-long-form="true" data-time="1343343264000">26 Jul</span></a></small></div>
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Don't listen to Jesus when He said to preach repentance & the forgiveness of sins in His Name (Lk 24:47). Listen to me. My ways are better.</div>
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Preaching repentance & the forgiveness of sins in Jesus Name will push people away, but leading them into an encounter won't push them away.</div>
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You don't need to preach repentance and the forgiveness of sins in Jesus Name because wherever you go you leak the kingdom of heaven.</div>
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<br class="Apple-interchange-newline" /></div>Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-60417477426288269122012-07-24T22:54:00.000-07:002012-08-15T00:26:42.006-07:00Jesus Culture LA's Non-Christian Roots and Fruit<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<b style="background-color: white; clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-align: right;"><b><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: large;">What is the history of</span></b></b></div>
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<b style="background-color: white; clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-align: right;"><b><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: large;">the Jesus Culture movement?</span></b></b></div>
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: large;"><b><span style="text-align: right;">Do the teachings at Jesus Culture conferences line</span> up with the Bible? </b></span><br />
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large; text-align: center;">This teaching video addresses the historical </span><b style="background-color: white; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: x-large; text-align: center;">roots</b><span style="background-color: white; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large; text-align: center;"> of the Jesus Culture Movement and its current </span><b style="background-color: white; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: x-large; text-align: center;">fruits</b><span style="background-color: white; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large; text-align: center;">, specifically the teaching presented at the Jesus Culture Los Angeles Conference in August 2012.</span></blockquote>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><iframe allowfullscreen='allowfullscreen' webkitallowfullscreen='webkitallowfullscreen' mozallowfullscreen='mozallowfullscreen' width='320' height='266' src='https://www.youtube.com/embed/1mOH3hyTmVM?feature=player_embedded' frameborder='0'></iframe></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">These additional videos explore the<span style="background-color: white;"> "Word-Faith" movement, </span><span style="background-color: white;">the heretical stream of non-Christian teaching addressed in the above video. The first is part 1 of an eleven part series by Tim Martin of Watchman.Org</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Justin Peters also has an excellent teaching series on the movement. </span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><span style="background-color: white;">This is part one of four teaching</span><span style="background-color: white;"> videos.</span></span></div>
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Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-43884245071243600342012-07-18T01:05:00.001-07:002012-07-25T09:07:15.391-07:00Jesus Culture's New Apostolic Reformation is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Recently Bible teacher and pastor, John MacArthur, said that the false teachings and practices of Jesus Culture's New Apostolic Reformation movement were "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit", a "work of Satan" and "not Christian."<br />
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These comments, his teaching on the role, purpose, and worship of the Holy Spirit - as well as the dangerous misunderstandings that lead to blaspheming Him -- can be viewed in full here:<br />
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<br /></div>Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-19181896941040879902012-07-14T17:27:00.003-07:002012-07-14T21:14:32.144-07:00Are You Called to Be A Watchman with Us?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<b style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: large;">We have observed that there are many readers of this blog who are diligently studying the warnings we are declaring. Your diligence is commendable. </span></span></b></div>
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<span style="text-align: -webkit-auto;"><b><span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; font-size: large;">The brethren in Australia; Hartford, Wisconsin; South Africa; the University of California (Irvine); New Zealand; the UK; and other locations have drawn our attention to ask you...is the Lord calling you to be a watchman? <br /><br />If so, are you called to join us? If you believe the Lord is showing you this, please read this post and contact us using the contact email address at the top of the blog page.</span><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></b></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="background-color: #f9fdff; color: #001320; line-height: 20.571428298950195px; text-align: justify;"><b><i>Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. ~ Ephesians 5:11</i></b></span><span style="background-color: #f9fdff; color: #001320; line-height: 20.571428298950195px; text-align: justify;"><b><i><br /></i></b></span><b><span style="text-align: -webkit-auto;"><i></i></span></b></span></blockquote>
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<b><span style="text-align: -webkit-auto;"><i><span style="font-family: inherit;">And it came to pass at the end of seven days, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. ~ Ezekiel 3:16</span></i></span></b></blockquote>
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<span style="font-family: inherit;"><i><b><span style="background-color: white; line-height: 13.714285850524902px;">Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. ~ </span></b></i></span><i><b><span style="line-height: 13.714285850524902px;">Galatians 6:1 </span></b></i><span style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit;"> </span></blockquote>
<span style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;">T</span><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;">he prophet Ezekiel was </span><span style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;">“Called to be a Watchman”</span><span style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;"> by God, over his people, Israel.</span><span style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;"> </span><span style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;">When many consider</span></span><span style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;"> the position of “watchman," they assume it to be one who </span><u style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;">only</u><span style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;"> is sent to care for the needs of the people, watch over them, pray for their needs, and tend to them as a shepherd tends to his flock.</span><span style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;"> </span><br />
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit;"><span style="text-align: -webkit-auto;">But, the position of a “watchman” is far more than this, for not only does it require a heart of love for the people and most importantly the Father, it also requires b</span><span style="text-align: -webkit-auto;">oldness, diligence, fearlessness, dedication, obedience to the Father, and a patient dependence upon the grace of God. </span><span style="text-align: -webkit-auto;">In Old Testament times, a physical "watchman"</span><span style="text-align: -webkit-auto;"> was one who stood guarding the city wall, and upon sensi</span></span><span style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;">ng any immediate danger </span><span style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><u>inside</u></span><span style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;"> or </span><span style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><u>outside</u></span><span style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;"> of the walls, he would then sound an alarm to warn the people in advance of what lied ahead.</span><span style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;"> </span><br />
<span style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><br /></span><br />
<span style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;">The prophet Ezekiel was called by God to be a spiritual watchman over the people and, much like the physical watchman, he had to </span><u style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;">warn</u><span style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;"> the people in advance of impending dangers.</span><span style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;"> </span><o:p style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;"> </o:p><br />
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;">There are some within the Body of Christ who’ve been called to be a watchman, and it is not an easy calling. It is a very serious position which one should not take lightly and has serious consequences for disobedience. A watchman called of the Lord will often face ridicule and persecution, will be mocked and shamefully mistreated by the very ones they are called to “watch over,” as many will despise their speech, seeing it as a curse rather than a warning and will close their ears to the truth. </span><br />
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;">However, he/she must have boldness, love, patience, and gentleness in warning the brethren, for this reason: for such a one to choose to be silent, and not declare the warning of the Lord to the people when sensing the oncoming dangers, or knowing of the seemingly hidden dangers, he/she will suffere the consequences of disobedience. </span><br />
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;">Are you called to be a watchman? Are you called to guard and watch the sheep, to warn of wolves among us? Seek the Lord, pray and wait. He will answer. </span><br />
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<o:p style="background-color: white; clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><img height="400" src="http://www.truthnet.org/Ezekiel/3-Ezekiel-2-7/Ezekiel-Watchman.jpg" width="294" />
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<i><o:p style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><b><span style="line-height: 13.714285850524902px; text-align: left;">Titus 3:10-11 </span></b></span></o:p><o:p style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><b><span style="line-height: 13.714285850524902px; text-align: left;">"As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."</span></b></span></o:p></i></blockquote>
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<i><o:p style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><b><br style="line-height: 13.714285850524902px; text-align: left;" /></b></span></o:p><o:p style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><b><span style="line-height: 13.714285850524902px; text-align: left;">2 John 1:7-11 </span></b></span></o:p><o:p style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><b><span style="line-height: 13.714285850524902px; text-align: left;">"For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works."</span></b></span></o:p></i></blockquote>
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<i><o:p style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><b><span style="line-height: 13.714285850524902px; text-align: left;">1 Timothy 5:20</span></b></span></o:p><o:p style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><b><span style="line-height: 13.714285850524902px; text-align: left;">"As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear". </span></b></span></o:p></i></blockquote>
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<i><o:p style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><span style="line-height: 13.714285850524902px; text-align: left;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><b><br /></b></span></span></o:p><o:p style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><b><span style="line-height: 13.714285850524902px; text-align: left;">2 Timothy 4:2 </span></b></span></o:p><o:p style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><b><span style="line-height: 13.714285850524902px; text-align: left;">"Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching."</span></b></span></o:p></i></blockquote>
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<b style="background-color: white; font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><span style="line-height: 13.714285850524902px; text-align: left;"><i>Galatians 6:1 </i></span></b></blockquote>
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<i style="font-family: inherit; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><span style="text-align: left;">"</span><span style="font-weight: bold; line-height: 13.714285850524902px; text-align: left;">Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted."</span></i></blockquote>
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<i><o:p style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><b><span style="line-height: 13.714285850524902px; text-align: left;">Romans 16:17 </span></b></span></o:p><o:p style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><b><span style="line-height: 13.714285850524902px; text-align: left;">"Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them."</span></b></span></o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"><b><br /></b></span><o:p style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><b><a class="NETBibleTagged" href="http://jesuscultureawakening.blogspot.com/" style="line-height: 13.142857551574707px; text-decoration: none;"><span style="color: black;"></span></a></b></span></o:p></i></blockquote>
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<i><o:p style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><b><a class="NETBibleTagged" href="http://jesuscultureawakening.blogspot.com/" style="line-height: 13.142857551574707px; text-decoration: none;"><span style="color: black;">1 Timothy 4:1, 6</span></a></b></span></o:p></i></blockquote>
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<i><span style="font-family: inherit;"><b><span style="background-color: white; line-height: 13.142857551574707px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">"the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons….In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following." </span></b></span></i></blockquote>
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</div>Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-40369123823989938642012-07-11T23:52:00.001-07:002015-03-29T22:44:18.786-07:00Exposing the Darkness at Bethel Church - Have no Part With it<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<a href="http://blogs.christianpost.com/grace-under-fire/" style="-webkit-transition: all 0.2s ease 0s; color: #00bdf2; font-size: 44px; line-height: 100px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-decoration: none;">GRACE UNDER FIRE</a></h1>
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<span style="background-color: transparent; font-size: 22pt; line-height: 25pt; text-align: center;"><a href="http://blogs.christianpost.com/grace-under-fire/birds-of-a-feather-flock-together-10395/" target="_blank">Birds of a Feather Flock Together: Strange Manifestations in 'Christian' Circles - from God or not? Feathers in Church? Bill Johnson of Bethel Church, Redding California...</a></span></h1>
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by Anne Heers</div>
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<strong style="background-color: transparent; border: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">"...for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness"? (2 Corinthians 6:14)</strong> </div>
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In chapter 12 of <em style="background-color: transparent; border: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">When Heaven Invades Earth: A Practical Guide to a Life of Miracles</em>, Bill Johnson, Senior Pastor of Bethel Church in Redding, California writes:</div>
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I have seen the small gems that suddenly appeared in the people's hands as they worshipped God. Since early in 1998, we have had feathers fall in our meetings. At first I thought birds were getting into our air conditioning ducts, but then they started falling in other rooms of the church not connected with the same ductwork. They now fall most anywhere we go - airports, homes, restaurants, offices and the like...He [God] wants to take us farther, and we can only get there by following signs. Our present understanding of scripture can only take us so far. (Page 204,205)</div>
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Johnson convinces people that these signs are from God and the Holy Spirit and our present understanding of scripture cannot take us far enough. On the same pages, he says that laughter, gold dust, oil and a cloud (appearing in the church building) are also signs of God's presence. He further explains in the same chapter that these signs and manifestations "are simple indicators of God's presence and purpose". He calls these signs God's "personal notes" to us. He clearly links these signs to our holy God and the Holy Spirit.</div>
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But are they? In scripture, believers are commanded to be scrutinizing (not blindly accepting) by putting what they see and hear to the test instead of accepting a teaching, sign or wonder right away, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).</div>
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Are all signs from God? Clearly scripture teaches that the apostles did signs and wonders. God is still powerful just like He was back then: "And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders done among the people; and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch" (Acts 5:12).</div>
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However, scripture also contains warnings about following signs and wonders: "The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12). “If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’—which you have not known—‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the <strong style="background-color: transparent; border: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.</strong> You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him" (Deuteronomy 13:1-4).</div>
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Johnson preaches this about Jesus: "He laid his divinity aside" (<em style="background-color: transparent; border: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">When Heaven Invades Earth</em>; chapter 7; page 110). Johnson also preaches that Jesus did His miracles as a man and not as God. Remember in John 10:30 when Jesus said, "I and the Father are one"? What about the immaculate conception and the virgin birth? That was divine, so Jesus had to be divine since conception, even before that - and forever for that matter! In an article from <em style="background-color: transparent; border: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><a href="http://blogs.christianpost.com/Admin/http:/www.charismamag.com/index.php/new-man/1622-features/32505-youve-got-the-power" style="-webkit-transition: all 0.2s ease 0s; color: #2765c2; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">Charisma Magazine</a></em> dated February 23, 2012, Johnson writes: "While Jesus is eternally God, He emptied Himself of His divinity and became a man...it’s vital to note that He did all His miracles as a man, not as God. If He did them as God, I would still be impressed. But because He did them as a man yielded to God, I am now unsatisfied with my life, being compelled to follow the example He has given us. Jesus is the only model for us to follow". The proof text he gives is Philippians 2:7 (which does not state that Christ's divine nature ceased, but basically that Jesus humbly became a servant despite His divinity).</div>
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Is this the same Jesus of the Bible that is preached here - a Jesus who was a non-divine man? I personally believe that Jesus was and is always divine in nature and <em style="background-color: transparent; border: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">never ceased</em> to be divine in nature and one with God (because God is divine) for a split second. If someone is divine, it is in their nature and cannot be changed. Divinity cannot be laid aside or stopped. I am human in nature, and I cannot lay that aside. Jesus was and always will be divine in nature, so how could He lay His divine nature aside as He has <em style="background-color: transparent; border: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">always been</em> divine, Godhead and deity forever?</div>
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Interestingly, there are no records of feathers falling on the apostles in the Bible, though this is an occurence happening in occultic religions and practices. According to a new age ministry called<a href="http://www.krysalistraining.co.uk/resources/angel_%20wishes.htm" style="-webkit-transition: all 0.2s ease 0s; color: #2765c2; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">Krysalis Training Academy</a>, which supports the Dalai Lama, psychic practices, reiki, new age spiritual healing, hypnotherapy, eastern meditation, shamanism, wicca, mysticism and more - feathers are indeed a sign.</div>
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Angels often send us little reminders of their presence as angel feathers, which are small white feathers. These seem to appear from nowhere when we are down and in need of comfort. I remember sitting in a café, watching the rain falling on the pavement outside and feeling blue. Suddenly, a small white feather floated down in front of me and landed on my table. I smiled, knowing the angels were around me, with their comforting presence.</div>
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Feathers falling - from God or not? As we see here, feathers do appear as signs from other spirits of the occult.</div>
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The Apostle Paul spoke in 2 Corinthians 11:4 on "another Jesus" and "another spirit". Could this be?</div>
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Another peculiar manifestation in <em style="background-color: transparent; border: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">professed</em> Christian circles these days are uncontrolled animal sounds, laughing and drunkenness. Bill Johnson endorses John and Carol Arnott (<em style="background-color: transparent; border: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Catch the Fire Ministries</em> and <em style="background-color: transparent; border: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship</em>) on his own website's <a href="http://www.bjm.org/friends.html" style="-webkit-transition: all 0.2s ease 0s; color: #2765c2; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">friend list</a>. In fact, Johnson and the Arnott's are together having an upcoming conference in the UK in August 2012 called the<a href="http://johnandcarol.org/itinerary/revival-alliance-conference" style="-webkit-transition: all 0.2s ease 0s; color: #2765c2; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" target="_blank">Revival Alliance Conference</a>. The Arnott's promote jungle and barnyard animal sounds as a manifestation from the Holy Spirit on their <a href="http://catchthefire.com/About/History" style="-webkit-transition: all 0.2s ease 0s; color: #2765c2; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">official website</a>. Interestingly, we do <em style="background-color: transparent; border: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">not</em> see any apostles being "overcome" by a lack of self-control with animals sounds in the entire history of Christianity nor from our plumbline, the Word of God (remember, self-control is the fruit of the Spirit, not a loss of self-control; see Galatians 5:22).</div>
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According to the same occultic ministry mentioned above, animal sounds are characteristic of spirits of <a href="http://www.krysalistraining.co.uk/resources/medicine_tools.htm" style="-webkit-transition: all 0.2s ease 0s; color: #2765c2; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">shamanism</a>.</div>
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The Arnott's, friends of Johnson, explain:</div>
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The Toronto Blessing is a transferable anointing. In its most visible form it<strong style="background-color: transparent; border: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">overcomes</strong> worshippers with <strong style="background-color: transparent; border: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">outbreaks</strong> of laughter, weeping, groaning, shaking, falling, 'drunkenness,' and even behaviours that have been described as a 'cross between a jungle and a farmyard.' Of greater significance, however, are the changed lives.</div>
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Bill Johnson attributes these manifestations to the Holy Spirit when he states:</div>
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Our new list includes falling, shaking, laughing, etc...we must learn to recognize his move by recognizing his presence. (<em style="background-color: transparent; border: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">When Heaven Invades Earth</em>; chapter 12; page 205)</div>
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The Apostle Paul said that if all spoke in tongues and an unbeliever walked in, they would think everyone was crazy (and turn around and walk right out!). "So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?" (1 Corinthians 14:23; NIV). Are these manifestations from God? If you walked into a church and one or more people were barking uncontrollably like a dog, hissing like a snake, moo-ing like a cow, or jumping around like a monkey, would you stay to hear the message? What would God say about this? What about the Apostle Paul? Some things to ponder.</div>
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The Apostle Paul said, "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and <strong style="background-color: transparent; border: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">seducers</strong> shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works" (2 Timothy 3:12-17).</div>
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Have you ever looked up the Greek meaning for seducers ('imposters')? This word is translated from the Greek word "góēs". Here is how the <em style="background-color: transparent; border: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">HELPS Word-studies</em> defines the word 'imposter':</div>
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Originally, a sorcerer (in ancient Greek literature); in New Testament times, 1114 (góēs) is a swindler – a shameless cheat pretending to use supernatural power; an actor (cheap imposter), looking for self-gain, i.e. posing to be someone he isn't. "A charlatan", used only in 2 Tim 3:13, refers to a seducer (properly, a wailer) – a fraud who "sounds off" like a whining enchanter. This person uses their verbal spells and incantations to give the (false) impression they can do miracles.</div>
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Are these signs and wonders from the real Jesus and the real Holy Spirit? Or is this another Jesus and another spirit bringing "lying signs and wonders" as prophesied? What do you think? I know what I think, and that is based upon the scriptures.</div>
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Thanks for reading.</div>
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Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-12894017290783203912012-07-10T00:32:00.000-07:002012-08-15T00:25:10.780-07:00Jesus Culture's False Gospel: Will the Real Gospel Please Stand Up?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: 18px;">There are many false teachings at Jesus Culture Conferences. Some of these errors are more obvious than others. <span style="background-color: white;">One of the errors that can be hard to detect is the "different gospel" that is taught and preached consistently throughout Jesus Culture's teachings. It is hard to detect, because for some people--even long-time Christians-- the actual message of the gospel is not fully clear. </span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: 18px;"><span style="background-color: white;"><br /></span></span><span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: 18px;"><span style="background-color: white;">[The <u>absence</u> of the gospel in Jesus Culture conferences --as well as Jesus Culture's home church, Bethel, and its affiliated School of Supernatural Ministry-- is certainly an obvious "different gospel". One can attend many of their events, Sunday messages, classes and even the "Power Evangelism" seminars, and never hear, read, or practice the preaching of the gospel.]</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: 18px;"><br />Another way to see these different gospels is through contrast. The short video below illustrates several "other" gospel messages--including some similar to those taught by Jesus Culture--and then the message of the real gospel. </span><br />
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<span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;">See if you can detect the true gospel message, from the other, false gospels. Teacher John MacArthur then offers an explanation of the summary of the gospel, as it was inspired by the Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul in Paul's second letter to the Corinthians, chapter 5, verse 21: </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><i><span style="line-height: 21px; text-align: justify;">He made Him who knew no sin </span><span style="line-height: 21px; text-align: justify;">to be</span><span style="line-height: 21px; text-align: justify;"> sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him</span></i></span></blockquote>
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: 18px;">Why is Jesus Culture's <i><b>false</b></i> gospel dangerous? </span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="color: #222222; line-height: 18px;">Because "</span><span style="color: #001320; font-size: 16px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">it is the </span><span style="color: #001320; font-size: 16px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">power</span><span style="color: #001320; font-size: 16px; text-align: -webkit-auto;"> of God for the salvation </span><span style="background-color: white; color: #001320; font-size: 16px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">of everyone who believes" (Romans 1:16). </span><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; line-height: 18px;">The Bible says that it must be preached, we must hear it and, by faith, we must believe it, in order to be saved from the rightful punishment of a holy God for our sins committed against Him. (<a class="NETBibleTagged" href="http://jesuscultureawakening.blogspot.com/2012/07/jesus-cultures-false-gospel-will-real.html" style="color: #a221bb; text-decoration: none;">Romans 10</a>:13-15, </span><a class="NETBibleTagged" href="http://jesuscultureawakening.blogspot.com/2012/07/jesus-cultures-false-gospel-will-real.html" style="color: #a221bb; line-height: 18px; text-decoration: none;">Ephesians 2:8</a><span style="background-color: white; color: #222222; line-height: 18px;">).</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: 18px;"><br />This is the message that has the power to bring us out darkness and death into light and life, eternally. (<a class="NETBibleTagged" href="http://jesuscultureawakening.blogspot.com/2012/07/jesus-cultures-false-gospel-will-real.html" style="color: #a221bb; text-decoration: none;">1 Peter 2:9</a>). </span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: 18px;">Jesus said in <a class="NETBibleTagged" href="http://jesuscultureawakening.blogspot.com/2012/07/jesus-cultures-false-gospel-will-real.html" style="color: #a221bb; text-decoration: none;">John 12:46-50</a></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="line-height: 21px; text-align: justify;">“I have come </span><i style="line-height: 21px; text-align: justify;">as</i><span style="line-height: 21px; text-align: justify;"> Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness. </span><span style="line-height: 21px; text-align: justify;">“If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. </span><span style="line-height: 21px; text-align: justify;">“He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. </span><span style="line-height: 21px; text-align: justify;">“For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment </span><i style="line-height: 21px; text-align: justify;">as to</i><span style="line-height: 21px; text-align: justify;"> what to say and what to speak.</span><span style="line-height: 21px; text-align: justify;">“I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.” </span></span></blockquote>
<span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: 18px;">Jesus is saying that we will be judged according to our response to Him and His Word. If the Jesus that is preached is "another Christ" we <i>cannot</i> respond to Him in a way that leads to salvation. Similarly, if the Word that is preached is "another gospel" we cannot respond to it in a way that leads to salvation.<br /><br />Zac Pooneen, in his article, "<a href="http://www.cfcindia.com/web/mainpages/the_true_gospel_and_the_false.php" style="color: #a221bb; text-decoration: none;">The True Gospel and the False</a>", explains it this way: </span><br />
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<span style="background-color: white; line-height: 15px; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br /></span></span><span style="background-color: white; line-height: 15px; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;">Basically, there are only two gospels being preached today - one man-centered and the other God-centered.</span></span></blockquote>
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;">The man-centered gospel promises man that God will give him everything he needs to make his life on earth comfortable and will also give him a seat in heaven at the end of his life. Man is told that Jesus will forgive all his sins, heal all his diseases, bless and prosper him materially, solve all his earthly problems, etc., etc.</span></blockquote>
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;">Self still remains at the center of such a man's life, and God revolves around him - as his servant - to answer his every prayer and to give him whatever he wants!! All that he has to do is "believe" and "claim every material blessing in Jesus' Name"!!</span></blockquote>
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;">This is a false gospel, because no mention is made of "repentance". Repentance is what John the Baptist, Jesus, Paul, Peter and all the apostles preached first of all. And repentance, unfortunately, is what is not preached today, even last of all!!</span></blockquote>
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;">The God-centered gospel, on the other hand, calls upon man to repent. It explains that "repentance" means:</span></blockquote>
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;">Turning FROM Self as the center of one's life, from doing one's own will, from walking along one's self-chosen way, from loving money, and from loving the world and the things in the world (the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life), etc., and</span><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;"></span></blockquote>
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;">Turning TO God, loving Him with one's whole heart, making Him the Centre of one's life and doing His will henceforth etc.,</span></blockquote>
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;">Faith in Christ's death on the cross can forgive a man his sins only when he has repented. Then he can receive the power of the Holy Spirit to empower him to deny himself daily so that he can live a God-centered life. This is the gospel that Jesus and the apostles preached.</span><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;"></span></blockquote>
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;">The false gospel makes the gate wide and the way broad (easy to walk along, because one does not have to deny one's Self or stop living for one's own interests or stop seeking one's own gain). ...But it is all a deception. Although some are indeed genuinely converted in such meetings, because of their sincerity, many such "converts" end up becoming "twofold children of hell" (Matt.23:15) - deceived about their true state.</span></blockquote>
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;">The true gospel however, makes the gate small and the way narrow - not smaller or narrower than Jesus Himself made it, as some "super-spiritual" cultists do, but just the same size as Jesus made it. Few there be, that find this way to life. There is not much for the evangelists of this gospel to report about, and the statistics are not impressive. But this gospel leads people to the Lord Jesus and to heaven.</span></blockquote>
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;">"Be careful how you listen. Whoever obeys what he has heard, to him more light and understanding will be given. But whoever does not obey what he has heard, even what light and understanding he thinks he has will be taken away from him." (Paraphrase of <a class="NETBibleTagged" href="http://jesuscultureawakening.blogspot.com/2012/07/jesus-cultures-false-gospel-will-real.html" style="color: #a221bb; text-decoration: none;">Luke 8:18</a>).</span></blockquote>
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;">He who has ears to hear, let him hear.</span></blockquote>
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Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-83610695763886393252012-07-04T21:41:00.001-07:002012-07-04T21:41:24.640-07:00Miraculous Healing and Belief in God<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<span style="background-color: white;">I had just finished my “Why I Am a Christian” talk at Calvary Chapel Chino Valley’s youth conference in April. After talking with a few students and leaders, a young man approached. He challenged me with this question, explaining his atheist friend had asked it earlier in the week. And he had no answer for his friend.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white;">Apparently, it’s a question atheists make a big deal about. There is even an entire website dedicated to it (<a href="http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/" style="margin: 0px auto; padding: 0px; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">www.whywontgodhealamputees.com</a>). The website claims “this is one of the most important questions we can ask about God.” Sometime, somewhere I had heard the objection but had never given it much attention. Now it was staring me right in the face. Immediate attention was required.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 20px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">I proceeded in usual fashion—by asking clarifying questions. “What conclusion does your atheist friend draw from this question?” I inquired. He responded, “Well, if God doesn’t heal amputees when we pray for them, then He doesn’t exist.” I followed with a few more questions, gathering the gist of the atheist’s argument.</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: white;">The atheist claims that alleged healings, like the disappearance of a cancerous tumor or diagnosed disease, seem to be ambiguous. Did God supernaturally heal the person or is modern medicine responsible? Both causes could be offered and both could be disputed. But according to the atheist, if an amputee grew back a missing limb after intercessory prayer was offered on his behalf, this would be a clear case of the miraculous and thus proof for God’s existence. On the other hand, no new limb means no God. A fail-proof test, right? Wrong.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white;">First, I pointed out this atheist’s argument is guilty of a logical fallacy called a non sequitur. The fallacy is committed when a conclusion or statement does not logically follow from a previous argument or statement. If amputees do not grow back limbs when we pray for them, does it follow God does not exist? Of course not. His existence is independent of what actions He would or would not take.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white;">But why limit myself to amputee miracles? Any miracle will do. A million dollars in my bank account today. World peace starting tomorrow. And if these miracles don’t occur, then God doesn’t exist. Well, I think you can see the irrationality of such claims. God’s failure to perform a miracle at my request says nothing about His existence. In fact, even if we granted the atheist his assumption that amputees are not healed, at the very most we could only conclude God does not heal amputees. Not a profound conclusion.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white;">Second, I pointed out his atheist friend simply assumed no amputees have been healed. But just because an atheist says there’s never been an amputee healing in thousands of years of human history doesn’t mean it’s true. Now, I’ve never researched this question but I wanted this young Christian to catch a healthy bit of skepticism, particularly when it comes to anti-Christian claims. Research is now in order but my point was you cannot simply assume what needs to be proven. </span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white;">But we also have to test the intellectual honesty of the atheist asking this question. If we can produce a credible report of an amputee’s missing limb being healed and replaced, is the atheist willing to accept that evidence? There are credible reports of miraculous healings in our own time and in the Bible, but he dismisses these wanting further evidence of a particular kind of miracle. So is this an honest question or an insincere request for evidence when no evidence will suffice?</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white;">Third, even personally witnessing a miracle is no guarantee that someone will believe. This was the case with the Pharisees of Jesus’ time. They witnessed His miracles, but their response was to conspire to crucify Him. Greg Koukl calls this <a href="http://str.typepad.com/weblog/2010/03/unbelievable-unbelief.html" style="margin: 0px auto; padding: 0px; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">“unbelievable unbelief.”</a> Jesus told them, “If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead” (Luke 16:31).</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white;">You see, our essential problem is moral, rebellion against God. Asking for evidence is legitimate, but evidence doesn’t guarantee belief because sinners don’t want to bend their knee to the Lord. So the question actually arises from a wrong understanding of the atheist’s fundamental problem. It’s not lack of evidence, it’s sin and rebellion to the Truth.</span><br />
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<span style="background-color: white;">What is the truth against he rebels? The gospel.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white;"> Read <a href="http://www.conversantlife.com/theology/why-wont-god-heal-amputees">FULL ARTICLE HERE</a></span></div>
</div>Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-42810206636761319912012-06-19T17:35:00.002-07:002012-06-19T17:47:19.374-07:00Testing the Encounters of Jesus Culture || Angelic or Demonic ?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<b><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: large;"><span style="background-color: white; color: #001320; line-height: 21px; text-align: justify;"><i>No wonder, for even </i></span></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: large;"><span style="background-color: white; color: #001320; line-height: 21px; text-align: justify;"><i>Satan disguises </i></span></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: large;"><span style="background-color: white; color: #001320; line-height: 21px; text-align: justify;"><i>himself as an </i></span></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: large;"><span style="background-color: white; color: #001320; line-height: 21px; text-align: justify;"><i>angel of light.</i> </span></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: large;"><span style="background-color: white; color: #001320; line-height: 14px; text-align: justify;">~ 2 Corinthians 11:14</span></span></b></div>
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<span style="background-color: white;">Following is a transcription of a </span><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdOY42jUeks%E2%80%9D" style="background-color: white; text-decoration: none;">YouTube video</a><span style="background-color: white;">[1] from early 2008 with Bill Johnson of Bethel Church in Redding, California surmising that angels “have been bored for quite a few decades.” Johnson’s words begin at about 1:13 after an introduction by Patricia King of </span><a href="http://www.extremeprophetic.com/" style="background-color: white; text-decoration: none;">Extreme Prophetic</a><span style="background-color: white;">[2] who refers to him as an “apostolic adviser” and “apostolic covering:”</span></div>
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<em>Heaven is invading Earth; and, it’s happening through all different kinds of unusual manifestations. It’s happening through much more angelic encounters – those kinds of things are much more frequent.</em></div>
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<em>And, I know people get nervous when you start talking about angels and this. It’s foolish to worship angels; but, it’s equally foolish to ignore them. God sent them to assist us in our assignment. We’ve been <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>co</strong></span>mmissioned because we embrace His mission.</em></div>
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<em>And, Jesus needed them. They came, ministered to Him. He cooperated. Paul cooperated with them. There wasn’t this praying to them – there’s not that sort of thing; but, they are there to assist us. And, quite frankly I think they have been bored for quite a few decades in this country and they’ve been looking for a generation that will live with some risk ‘cause that gives them something to back up. Because their whole deal is to enforce the Word of the Lord.</em></div>
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<em>And, the Word of the Lord in Psalms 103 comes in two ways. It comes from God declaring a matter and it comes from Him speaking to His people and His people declaring a matter. And, they can tell when a word has originated in the heart of the Father ‘cause it carries that fragrance of the Throne Room with it and they recognize, “This is my assignment.” And, they jump all over that and enforce it. I’ve watched it; I’ve seen this happen where a word comes from the Father it’s declared in a room in a setting and instantly there is the absolute, most impossible situation reversed simply because of a declared word. And, I know there’s angelic assistance in enforcing them.</em></div>
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<em>So, that’s, uh, it’s just increasing all kinds of manifestations. It’s the angelic realm; it’s just the supernatural breaking into this one: the gold and the oil and the wind. We’ve been having gusts of wind that just come out of nowhere. And, uh, ya know, it’s all good. It’s all signs that make you wonder and it’s just good to be in awe again. It’s not healthy to not be in awe. It’s not healthy to live accustomed to what’s going on around you. It’s really important that we live with that sense of awe and that appreciation for God’s unusual ways of working with us.</em></div>
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<em>So this is, uh – I love it, I just welcome all that He’s doing.</em></div>
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While the exact vintage of this video is unknown to this writer, it should be noted that this upload of February 3, 2008 predates the Lakeland ‘Revival’ by a couple months in which Todd Bentley claimed all sorts of things regarding angels. In <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-nwMfOKgXo%E2%80%9D" style="text-decoration: none;">this video</a>[3] of Lakeland from April 25, 2008, Bentley speaks of forthcoming ‘revivals’ and he states that a ‘revival’ was already taking place at Bill Johnson’s Bethel Church:</div>
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<em>…Denny Cline,[4] are you watching me in Albany? Bob Jones[5] told me it’s coming back to Washington, Oregon, California… …Ya know Albany, Oregon was the first healing outpouring that I had in America. Ya know why it broke out? Because I was in Shreveport, Louisiana and the angel of the Winds of Change was released. I went all the way over to Grant’s Pass, Oregon and I went all the way to Albany, Oregon and the healing revival broke out and it launched our ministry. And that Bob [Jones] told me that same Winds of Change angel had come all the way back to Lakeland.</em></div>
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<strong><em>We know it’s already happening in Bethel – in northern California. It’s happening in Redding, California…” </em></strong>[emphasis mine]</div>
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So, did the Bethel ‘revival’ rival the Lakeland ‘revival’ regarding angels? Did the same “Winds of Change angel” visit Bethel at the same time as Lakeland? Are angels omnipresent?</div>
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Todd Bentley stated back in 2002 or 2003 that it was an “angel called Healing Revival” that came to him in Grant’s Pass; whereas, above he says it was the “Winds of Change angel” who launched his ministry. Perhaps the angel changed his name later to “Winds of Change” because of a change in the wind? In the following, Bentley mentions that this “Healing Revival” angel was the same one of John G. Lake, William Branham and John Knox:</div>
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<em>I first saw the angel called Healing Revival on December 5 of 2000 in Grant’s Pass. The angel came to me again in Albany the next February. He stood in the church service with his body going through the ceiling of the church. Then the Lord told me the angel’s name and that he was the same angel I saw in Grant’s Pass earlier. God also revealed to me that this angel was involved in the ministry of John Lake, William Branham, and John Knox in Scotland. This angel, the Lord said, is from the North West Healing Revival and is manifesting again as a sign that God is restoring the Voice of Healing revival and opening up the ancient wells.</em></div>
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<em>In our ministry over the last year, this angel has come frequently and on many different occasions… …Many other people have also seen or had contact with this angel in the meetings. And whenever this angel shows up the miracles go off the charts. Instead of a few healings, we’ll get three blind eyes in one night or maybe a cripple guy gets out of a wheel chair.</em></div>
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<em>I believe the angel showed up in Albany as a sign that God was endorsing what was taking place and that it was opening up a healing well. Everywhere I have seen this angel the miracles continue after I leave and a healing well is established in that church and in that city… </em>[6]</div>
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From Scripture we know there are angels who minister to us. And, according to Psalm 103:19-21 – the verses Johnson must be referring to in the video above – we find another function of angels:</div>
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<em>19 The LORD has established his throne in heaven,</em><br />
<em>and his kingdom rules over all.</em></div>
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<em>20 Praise the LORD, you his angels,</em><br />
<em>you mighty ones who do his bidding, who obey his word.</em></div>
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<em>21 Praise the LORD, all his heavenly hosts,</em><br />
<em>you his servants who do his will.</em> [NIV]</div>
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<span style="color: #555555;">I</span>n this context, it is made evident that angels obey the Word of God and are commanded by God [see also Psalm 91:11]. It is the Father who dispatches them; they do not, as Johnson states, “recognize” their “assignment.” Rather, they <strong>obey</strong> their assignment. They do not act on their own accord. </div>
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Quoting Johnson from the transcript:</div>
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<em>And, the Word of the Lord in Psalms 103 comes in two ways. It comes from God declaring a matter and it comes from Him speaking to His people and His people declaring a matter.</em></div>
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With the latter part of the second sentence above Johnson sets up a straw man argument which is incumbent on him to defend as it is extra-biblical. For more on the function and nature of angels, here’s the Hebrew word from which we get “angel” – <em>mal’ak</em> — as defined by Strong’s:</div>
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<em>messenger, a human representative; angel, a supernatural representative of God, sometimes delivering messages, sometimes protecting God’s people; the “angel of the LORD” sometimes shares divine characteristics and is sometimes thought to be an manifestation of God himself, or of the preincarnate Christ </em>[Theophany]. [7] [bracketed comment mine]<em> </em><em> </em></div>
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Even Satan, a fallen angel, is constrained by the permissive will of God [see Job 1:12; 2:9]. To quote J. Hampton Keathley, III from his article <em>Angelology: The Doctrine of Angels</em>:</div>
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<em>Surely it is comforting to know that God may protect, provide, and encourage us through His angels, but this fact does not always guarantee such deliverance, and certainly we should never presume on this provision of God. … we should keep in mind that God does not always deliver us from danger or supply our needs in miraculous ways whether by angels or by His direct intervention. For His own sovereign and wise purposes, the opposite is sometimes His will as life clearly illustrates and Scripture declares (see <a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/shawn-bolz/%7B%7D" style="color: #008dcf; text-decoration: none;">Heb. 11:36-40</a>).</em></div>
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<em>But there is another truth regarding angels that needs to be kept in view. Just as people usually do not think of the punitive ministry of angels, so people, in their popular ideas about angels, often ignore the Scripture’s teaching about the deception of Satan’s evil angels (<span style="text-decoration: underline;"><a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/category/shawn-bolz/%7b%7d" style="color: #008dcf; text-decoration: none;">2 Cor. 11:14-15</a></span>). </em>[8]</div>
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<span style="color: black;"><a href="http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/07/25/randy-demains-jesus-encounter-and-the-angel-breakthrough-revival/" style="text-decoration: none;">Here</a>[9] is a post on an angel named “Breakthrough Revival” in which Randy DeMain claimed this angel came to him while he was in Nigeria. While the YouTube video from which the transcription is taken from has been removed by the user, the bulk is verifiable as the contents are referred to both on another blog and in a ‘prophetic word’ which will be quoted from later in this article:</span></div>
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<em>“All of a sudden I realized there was a presence of God that I had never experienced before upon my life. And in that moment of time, I heard a voice say this: ‘I have a gift for you, will you receive it?’ And it stunned me. And I looked up and it was like a veil between the natural and the supernatural opened, just an opening of the veil.”</em></div>
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It needs to be pointed out that the ‘veil’ DeMain speaks of sounds suspiciously like what is known in the New Age Religion as a “portal.” <a href="http://www.sedonanewagecenter.com/newsletter/html/2005/cnanewsletter5-11.htm" style="text-decoration: none;">The author here</a>[10] defines portals as “‘…inter-dimensional doorways, two-way tunnels, curtains of light’” and “’are a recurring concept in our cultural tradition allowing for travel between worlds and a means of transcending time and space.’” She states further:</div>
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<em>“Some people say they can travel physically through portals, but most of those who visit the portals in Sedona move within their minds, as in meditation. This is commonly known as an out-of-body experience as they project their consciousness into an astral realm…</em></div>
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<em>“There is an awareness that entities exist beyond our third dimensional existence, and that it is possible that there is movement between dimensions at portals…”</em></div>
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Going back to Randy DeMain’s account of his “visitation:”</div>
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“<em>And when this opened, the light became very bright, and as I looked up that living Lord Jesus Himself walked through that veil and stood before me just as a couple of feet in front of me and began to speak to me. He said, ‘An angel has come to me and asked to be assigned to you. His name is ‘Breakthrough Revival.’ He has seen in you the same heart and perseverance as the ones he has formerly served who have since died. He has new assignments since that time…”</em></div>
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Jesus Himself, in speaking of signs of the end of time gave this warning, “At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.” [Matthew 24:23 NIV] Therefore, it is very doubtful that DeMain actually saw Jesus Christ. In fact, given that we have no photos or verifiable representation of what Jesus actually looked like, how could DeMain be sure?</div>
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Continuing on with DeMain:</div>
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<em>“…And then He said this: ‘What you saw tonight, what you experienced tonight is what the angel does. He goes before you and he opens up the realm of the area you’re ministering in and he drives back all the power of darkness. And, he creates an atmosphere where it is on earth as it is in heaven.’ And, as you say… …the word of God manifests instantly just like there is in heaven, there’s no hindrance; and, I was just overwhelmed at what the Lord was saying…</em></div>
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<em>“…One of the things I said to the Lord, ‘…Why would I take this mighty angel… … from Nigeria, that’s causing all these things to happen, and take this angel from here back to America?’</em></div>
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<em>“…And, immediately the Lord said, ‘because his work is done, it’s now the work of gathering and reaping angels. They will go forth now into the harvest and partner with men in the harvest just like they did with Philip in the New Testament…’ I come to find out historically that this is also true because to this very day the born again rate exceeds the birth rate in that nation of Africa; so, indeed, its work was done.</em></div>
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<em>“The second thing really stunned me though. The Lord said to me, ‘It’s America’s time’ and I knew that all of a sudden the gaze of God had come to America.”</em></div>
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So, is it that God’s ‘gaze’ can only be on one nation at a time? This whole idea of angels moving from one region to another contradicts the pervasive belief in charismatic circles that angels and demons are constrained to specific geographic areas. This thought is one of the bases for the ‘spiritual warfare’ known as “spiritual mapping” written on extensively by C. Peter Wagner of <a href="http://www.globalharvest.org/" style="text-decoration: none;">Global Harvest Ministries</a>[11]and practiced in the modern prophetic movement. This notion of “territorial spirits” is debunked <a href="http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/daniel10.pdf" style="text-decoration: none;">here</a>.[12]</div>
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In the following, Shawn Bolz relates how this “Breakthrough angel” worked through Liz Jones of <a href="http://www.guildfordcommunitychurch.org.uk/Articles/9689/Guildford_Community_Church/GCC_life/GCC_Guildford/Prayer/Guildford_Prayer_School.aspx" style="text-decoration: none;">Guildford Prayer School (UK)</a>[13] while she was visiting his Los Angeles church:</div>
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<em>“…Liz Jones, saw an angel, and said the angel’s name was “Breakthrough.” He had come to bring revival to California and breakthrough to us, or city, and the State.</em></div>
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<em>“When she told me I was encouraged, but it did not fully register. In the past ministry I was involved in, WhiteDove Ministries, we did a series of conferences on a similar encounter that Bob Jones and Randy DeMain had reported having about an ‘angel of breakthrough’ who is instrumental in revival…</em></div>
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<em>“…I recently went to a conference with Randy DeMain who had had an encounter with what he also called the “Angel of Breakthrough” in Nigeria while on a ministry trip in 2004. This angel had been involved with Benson Idahosa during the great Nigerian revivals of the 1990’s. Bob Jones had a similar encounter a few months later with similar details about this ‘Angel of Breakthrough’ being released in America… I told Randy about Liz Jones’ encounter when I was with him during a conference held on Valentines weekend in Idaho. He looked surprised. He said the presence of the angel had left him, and that the Lord told him that he was taking ‘Breakthrough’ somewhere else for a while. However, the ‘Angel of Breakthrough’ would be back with Randy in the future! Randy said, ‘So, that is where he is!’”</em> [14] [Quotes (‘ ‘) and capitalization on ‘Angel of Breakthrough’ are mine. All else is as per original]</div>
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In <a href="http://elijahlist.com/words/display_word/3959" style="text-decoration: none;">a ‘prophetic word’ on the Elijah List</a>[15] from April 4, 2006, Paul Keith Davis of White Dove Ministries relates how Bob Jones had a vision of Randy DeMain’s “Breakthrough Angel” on March 24th of the same year. In this ‘word’ there were to be three “major” moves “soon to take place.” When did they occur? There does not appear to be any specific expression of this particular angel with the exception of the rather minor encounter referenced by Shawn Bolz above. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kkaq4ZXeLPs" style="text-decoration: none;">Here</a>[16] Bolz relates in a little more detail the account of Liz Jones and this angel with a claim of 100 people in his congregation, including the homeless, receiving jobs within a month; however, again, it does not seem to be a “major” ‘move.’</div>
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There was an account in early 2009 of <a href="http://www.lcmi.org/about/firestorm-february-26-28-2009/" style="text-decoration: none;">“Breakthrough Angel” showing up</a> in Harrisburg, PA[17] ; but, it did not seem to materialize into a “major” revival – if one at all. Here’s a snippet from the advertisement:</div>
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<em>“…We see this as a time to pull Heaven down and establish the Kingdom of God with every step that you take as the revival breakthrough angel is displacing spiritual forces over this region…” </em>[all as per original]</div>
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<span style="color: #555555;">I</span>n this <a href="http://bobjonesnew.unionactive.com/Docs/Words%20of%202010/2010-03_BreakthroughInOhio.htm" style="text-decoration: none;">‘prophetic word’</a>[18] from a March 2, 2010 “angelic visitation” referenced on Bob Jones’ website, Jones speaks of a ‘breakthrough’ in Ohio. No other information on this ‘revival’ is yet to be found as of the date of the writing of this article. Please note some confusing words at the end of Jones’ ‘word:’</div>
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<em>“Let’s take an aggressive stand against the spoken word. Don’t give the enemy an inroad. Pray to cancel the power and authority out of the spoken word that is not aligned with God’s destiny for your family, city and state. Stand firm on the word of God and be assured ‘With God All Things Are Possible!’ Welcome the Breakthrough Revival Angel to do that which is necessary to bring about God’s Kingdom on earth as it is in Heaven…”</em></div>
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According to modern charismatic belief, isn’t the spoken word the <em>rhema</em>, which is the one of ‘prophetic revelation,’ while the Word of God is the written word, the <em>logos</em>, the Bible? How does one know which ‘spoken word’ is “aligned with God’s destiny for your family, city and state?”</div>
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It has been since early 2006 that this Bob Jones’ ‘prophecy’ about the three “major” ‘moves’ of the “Breakthrough Angel” were to “soon take place” yet to date they have not come to fruition. With all the different angels of the Lakeland ‘revival,’ “Breakthrough” was not one of them. What happened to the “Breakthrough Angel?” Isn’t the “Angel of Breakthrough” supposed to return to Randy DeMain?</div>
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Is it possible that the unnamed angel of the Bethel ‘revival’ Todd Bentley references in the April 2008 clip above is the elusive “Angel of Breakthrough?” This seems doubtful since if this were a partial fulfillment of Jones’ ‘prophecy’ certainly it would have been promoted as such.</div>
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Taking all the above into consideration I would have to agree with this portion of Bill Johnson’s words from the transcript at the beginning of this article:</div>
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<em><strong>“It’s all signs that make you wonder…”</strong></em></div>
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[1] “fr33info4u,” <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Bill Johnson – Heaven invades Earth</span> <<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdOY42jUeks" style="text-decoration: none;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdOY42jUeks</a>> February 3, 2008; as accessed 10/10/10</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Verdana; font-size: 12px; line-height: 20px; padding: 0px 0px 15px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">
[2] Extreme Prophetic homepage <<a href="http://www.extremeprophetic.com/" style="text-decoration: none;">http://www.extremeprophetic.com/</a>></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Verdana; font-size: 12px; line-height: 20px; padding: 0px 0px 15px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">
[3] “GodOfElijah,” <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Todd Bentley Florida Healing Revival 3</span> <<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-nwMfOKgXo" style="text-decoration: none;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-nwMfOKgXo</a>> April 25, 2008; as accessed 10/10/10</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Verdana; font-size: 12px; line-height: 20px; padding: 0px 0px 15px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">
[4] Jesus Pursuit Church home page <<a href="http://www.vcfalbany.org/" style="text-decoration: none;">http://www.vcfalbany.org/</a>></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Verdana; font-size: 12px; line-height: 20px; padding: 0px 0px 15px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">
[5] Bob Jones Ministries home page <<a href="http://www.bobjones.org/" style="text-decoration: none;">http://www.bobjones.org/</a>></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Verdana; font-size: 12px; line-height: 20px; padding: 0px 0px 15px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">
[6] Bentley, Todd / Fresh Fire Ministries (archived), “An Angel Called Healing Revival” <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Angelic Hosts</span><<a href="http://www.etpv.org/2003/angho.html" style="text-decoration: none;">http://www.etpv.org/2003/angho.html</a>> as accessed 10/10/10</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Verdana; font-size: 12px; line-height: 20px; padding: 0px 0px 15px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">
[7] Strong, James, Dr. <span style="text-decoration: underline;">The Strongest Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible</span>. fully revised by John R. Kohlenberg III and James A. Swanson; 2001, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, MI; Strong’s # 4397; p 1414 <em>“mal’ak,”</em></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Verdana; font-size: 12px; line-height: 20px; padding: 0px 0px 15px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">
[8] Keathley, III, J. Hampton, “The Ministry of Angels” <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Angelology: The Doctrine of Angels</span>. <<a href="http://bible.org/article/angelology-doctrine-angels" style="text-decoration: none;">http://bible.org/article/angelology-doctrine-angels</a>> par 18-19; as accessed 10/10/10 </div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Verdana; font-size: 12px; line-height: 20px; padding: 0px 0px 15px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">
[9] “endtimespropheticwords” <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Randy DeMain’s Jesus encounter and the Angel Breakthrough Revival</span><<a href="http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/07/25/randy-demains-jesus-encounter-and-the-angel-breakthrough-revival/" style="text-decoration: none;">http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/07/25/randy-demains-jesus-encounter-and-the-angel-breakthrough-revival/</a>> July 25, 2008; as accessed 10/10/10</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Verdana; font-size: 12px; line-height: 20px; padding: 0px 0px 15px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">
[10] “Jocelyn” <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Portals</span> <<a href="http://www.sedonanewagecenter.com/newsletter/html/2005/cnanewsletter5-11.htm" style="text-decoration: none;">http://www.sedonanewagecenter.com/newsletter/html/2005/cnanewsletter5-11.htm</a>> Center For The New Age Newsletter, Volume 5 Issue 11, November, 2005; as accessed 10/10/10</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Verdana; font-size: 12px; line-height: 20px; padding: 0px 0px 15px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">
[11] Global Harvest Ministries homepage <<a href="http://www.globalharvest.org/" style="text-decoration: none;">http://www.globalharvest.org/</a>></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Verdana; font-size: 12px; line-height: 20px; padding: 0px 0px 15px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">
[12] Stevens, David E., “Daniel 10 and the Notion of Territorial Spirits,” <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Bibliotheca Sacra</span>. 157: 628 (2000): 410-431 <<a href="http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/daniel10.pdf" style="text-decoration: none;">http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/daniel10.pdf</a>> Stevens is Senior Pastor, Central Bible Church, Portland, Oregon; as accessed 10/10/10</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Verdana; font-size: 12px; line-height: 20px; padding: 0px 0px 15px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">
[13] Guildford Prayer School (UK) <<a href="http://www.guildfordcommunitychurch.org.uk/Articles/9689/Guildford_Community_Church/GCC_life/GCC_Guildford/Prayer/Guildford_Prayer_School.aspx" style="text-decoration: none;">http://www.guildfordcommunitychurch.org.uk/Articles/9689/Guildford_Community_Church/GCC_life/GCC_Guildford/Prayer/Guildford_Prayer_School.aspx</a>> as accessed 10/10/10</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Verdana; font-size: 12px; line-height: 20px; padding: 0px 0px 15px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">
[14] Bolz, Shawn “The Release of Breakthrough in California (Not another cliché breakthrough word)”<span style="text-decoration: underline;">blogs.myspace.com/shawnbolz</span> <<a href="http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=19410816&blogId=476320097" style="text-decoration: none;">http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=19410816&blogId=476320097</a>> March, 13 2009; as accessed 10/10/10</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Verdana; font-size: 12px; line-height: 20px; padding: 0px 0px 15px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">
[15] Elijah List, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Paul Keith Davis and Bob Jones: “The Angel Stated That His Name Is ‘Breakthrough’”</span><<a href="http://elijahlist.com/words/display_word/3959" style="text-decoration: none;">http://elijahlist.com/words/display_word/3959</a>> April 4, 2006; as accessed 10/10/10</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Verdana; font-size: 12px; line-height: 20px; padding: 0px 0px 15px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">
[16] “RevivalFiresMedia” <span style="text-decoration: underline;">“The Angel of Breakthrough” Interview with Shawn Bolz</span> <<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kkaq4ZXeLPs" style="text-decoration: none;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kkaq4ZXeLPs</a>> May 24, 2010; as accessed 10/10/10</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Verdana; font-size: 12px; line-height: 20px; padding: 0px 0px 15px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">
[17] Life Center Ministries advertisement for “Firestorm 2009” <<a href="http://www.lcmi.org/about/firestorm-february-26-28-2009/" style="text-decoration: none;">http://www.lcmi.org/about/firestorm-february-26-28-2009/</a>> as accessed 10/10/10</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Verdana; font-size: 12px; line-height: 20px; padding: 0px 0px 15px; text-align: -webkit-auto;">
[18] Jones, Bob “Invite Breakthrough Revival Angel” <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Damn the Torpedos Full Speed Ahead! Breakthrough is in Ohio!</span><<a href="http://bobjonesnew.unionactive.com/Docs/Words%20of%202010/2010-03_BreakthroughInOhio.htm" style="text-decoration: none;">http://bobjonesnew.unionactive.com/Docs/Words%20of%202010/2010-03_BreakthroughInOhio.htm</a>> as accessed 10/10/10</div>
</div>Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-34903016903385653112012-06-18T18:00:00.001-07:002012-06-18T18:07:46.466-07:00Jesus Culture :: A False Jesus, A False Gospel<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<span style="background-color: white; font-size: 10pt;"><b><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br /></span></b></span><br />
<span style="background-color: white; font-size: 10pt;"><b><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Bill Johnson is the lead pastor of Bethel Church, in Redding, California. Bethel is the sending church for Jesus Culture, and a frequent key speaker at their conferences. </span></b></span><br />
<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><br /></span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><i style="background-color: white; font-size: small;">(Read <a href="http://puritanbob.blogspot.com/2006/03/gospel-of-signs-and-wonders.html">FULL ARTICLE HERE</a>. Some reformatting has been done for clarity, and some comments from the article as of this posting have been left in for instruction. These are common objections and well-responded to by the author and commentors</i><span style="background-color: white; font-size: x-small;">. )</span></span><br />
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10pt;">It is
with great sadness that I write this analysis of Bill Johnson’s book, </span><i style="background-color: white; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10pt;">When Heaven Invades Earth</i><span style="background-color: white; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10pt;">. I do
pray for him and other pastors who teach these things. I also pray for those in
their churches. There are people I love dearly sitting in their pews.
Throughout the book and the teachings I’ve heard, there are many things I
disagree with (doctrines such as healing in the atonement, the anointing,
impartation, dominion theology). Instead of trying to refute every point, I’ve
tried to identify some of the more significant errors.</span><br />
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<b><u><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;">View
of Jesus</span></u></b><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;">Bill Johnson plucks John 5:19 out of its
context saying of Jesus, “the Son can do nothing.” He basically claims that
Jesus laid aside all of His godly attributes and had only human attributes and
abilities. In the history of the church, this teaching has been identified as a
heresy called kenoticism. Johnson teaches that Jesus was completely powerless
needed to be anointed by the Holy Spirit to perform miracles (p79). I found
this confusing believing that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one.
Johnson also said that “the Holy Spirit revealed the Father to Jesus” (p80). I
don’t see this anywhere in Scripture. On the contrary, Jesus asserts, “I and
the Father are One” (John 10:30) and also, “Whoever has seen me has seen the
Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in
the Father and the Father is in me?” (John 14:9-10). Why would Jesus need the
Father to be revealed to Him if they are one?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;">Johnson’s purpose behind this view of Christ
is to show that a believer can do everything Jesus did. His reasoning is as
follows: Jesus had no sin to separate Him from the Father and He was completely
dependent on the Holy Spirit’s power. Since Christ’s sacrifice has removed the
barrier of our sin, now nothing separates us, we only have to depend on the
Holy Spirit. While it is true that Christ’s sacrifice has sufficiently dealt
with our sin, I don’t think He went to the cross so that we could operate in
the miraculous but rather because of God’s great justice and mercy. The penalty
needed to be paid for our sin. We could never pay it. He paid it for us to
reconcile us to Himself. And although I am holy and blameless in His sight,
covered in the righteousness of Christ, while I am still in this earthly tent,
I am still a sinner. I await the day when I will be in my glorified state but
until then I cannot be compared to the sinless Jesus.<br />
<b><u>The Gospel</u></b><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;">My greatest concern with the teaching of
Bill Johnson and <st1:placename w:st="on">Bethel</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">Church</st1:placetype> in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Redding</st1:city></st1:place>
is that the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ are not central to their
message. It appears that the cross and the empty tomb are just a means to an
end - namely, operating in the miraculous. I fear they may be preaching a
different gospel.<br />
<br />
“Salvation was not the ultimate goal of Christ’s coming… [The ultimate goal]
was to fill each born again person with the Holy Spirit.” (Johnson, p71)<br />
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“This saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus
came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.” (1 Timothy
1:15)<br />
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“The gospel is the story of the Father wooing the hearts of mankind through His
love.” (Johnson, p101)<br />
“The present day understanding of preaching the gospel of the Kingdom means to
preach a message that will bring as many people to conversion as possible. But
what did preaching the kingdom mean to Jesus? Every instance in which He either
did it or commanded it, miracles followed.” (Johnson, p185)<br />
<br />
Jesus summed up His message with these words: “For God so loved the world, that
he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have
eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world,
but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him
is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he
has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.” (John 3:16-18)<br />
<br />
“Through the shedding of His blood, it would be possible for everyone who
believed on His name to do as He did and become as He was. This meant then that
every true believer would have access to the realm of life that Jesus lived
in.” (Johnson, p138)<br />
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“…the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7)<br />
<br />
“Without [signs and wonders/miracles], the world suffers, God is grieved, and
we are the most to be pitied” (Johnson, p119)<br />
“We are most to be pitied if we think we’ve reached the fullness of what god
intended for His Church here on earth.” (Johnson p186)<br />
<br />
“And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in
your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If
in this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all people most to be
pitied. But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of
those who have fallen asleep.” 1 Corinthians 15:17-20)<br />
<br />
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“I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the
grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- not that there is
another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel
of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel
contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said
before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to
the one you received, let him be accursed.” (Galatians 1:6-9)<br />
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<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><u><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;">View
of Suffering<o:p></o:p></span></u></b></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;">Johnson teaches that a loving Father would
not allow His children to suffer. According to him, a good God would not allow
sickness for a greater purpose. Inspired by the Holy Spirit, the apostle Paul
wrote in 2 Corinthians 12:7-9, “So to keep me from being too elated by the
surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a
messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from being too elated. Three times
I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. But he said to me,
"My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in
weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so
that the power of Christ may rest upon me.”<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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On page 48 of his book, Bill Johnson uses Hebrews 11 as a summary of faith. He
fails to include those who by faith “were tortured, refusing to accept release,
so that they might rise again to a better life. Others suffered mocking and
flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in
two, they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and
goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated--” (Hebrews 11: 35-37). Throughout
history God’s people have always endured hardship and persecution. A good God
is one who upholds and strengthens His own in the midst of suffering so that He
is glorified by doing so.<br />
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<b><u>Biblical Interpretation<o:p></o:p></u></b></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;">There are basic rules of interpreting the
Bible that I think are very important. For example, verses must be interpreted
in their context. We also must understand what message was being conveyed at
the specific time and to a specific people. A text can never mean what it never
meant…in its original context. (See page 65 and Joshua 1:3). I also have
concerns with Bill Johnson’s hermeneutics on a different level. I affirm that
we do need the Holy Spirit to reveal the truths of the Bible to us and we do
need to lay aside our presuppositions and let God speak to us through His word.
But Johnson goes beyond that and places a subjective prophetic word over the
straightforward meaning of Bible passages. Of course he would say that the
Bible has the ultimate authority but I haven’t seen that principle practiced.
The result: (1) relativism - to me this verse means…and (2) a new form of
popery - the great Reformation principle of <i>sola
scriptura</i> is cast aside and the prophet/teacher’s interpretation is the new
standard.<br />
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<b><u>Discernment</u></b><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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One great danger spread
throughout this book is the equating of discernment with fear. Bill Johnson is
quick to defend himself against those who question his teachings. The apostle
Paul commended the Bereans for searching the Scriptures to see if what he said
was true. Those who are concerned about being deceived and hesitant to sign on
are condemned as full of fear (which is viewed as the worst possible thing). In
order not to fall victim to fear, all are encouraged jump in unreservedly.<br />
“For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and
wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.” (Mat 24:24)<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" name="comments"></a><span style="letter-spacing: 2.4pt; text-transform: uppercase;">COMPLAINTS:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<a href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" id="av-0-13487404072546513179" name="c114188354903619267"></a><a href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" name="c1880520237654014425"></a><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"><img height="16" src="file:///C:\Users\owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image002.gif" title="TruthDiscern" v:shapes="_x0000_i1025" width="16" /><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<a href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" name="c431003938381172759"></a><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/15333531865819629049"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;"><img border="0" height="16" src="file:///C:\Users\owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image003.gif" title="seeker3" v:shapes="_x0000_i1026" width="16" /></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/15333531865819629049"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;">seeker3</span></a> said...<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;">What false teachers often do is take some CONSEQUENCES of the
gospel and make that the gospel INSTEAD.<br />
<br />
For Brian Houston (<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Hillsong</st1:city>,
<st1:country-region w:st="on">Australia</st1:country-region></st1:place>) that
becomes: “Jesus came so that we can be worldly successful in business,
leadership, possessions and money.”<br />
<br />
For Bill Johnson it becomes: “Jesus came so that we can do supernatural
miracles”<br />
<br />
The Devil tried to entice Jesus (after the fast in the desert) to do
supernatural things or get involved in worldly kingdoms – see
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke%204:1-13;&version=31;<br />
<br />
The Devil is trying the same enticement to Christians through people like Bill
Johnson, Brian Houston, Todd Bentley, Rick Joyner, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span class="comment-timestamp"><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt; letter-spacing: 1.2pt; text-transform: uppercase;"><a href="http://puritanbob.blogspot.com/2006/03/gospel-of-signs-and-wonders.html?showComment=1242274200000#c431003938381172759" title="comment permalink"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;">9:10 PM</span></a></span></span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt; letter-spacing: 1.2pt; text-transform: uppercase;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<a href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" name="c1888957603393860748"></a><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"><img border="0" height="16" src="file:///C:\Users\owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image002.gif" title="Anonymous" v:shapes="_x0000_i1027" width="16" /><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;">Anonymous said...<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;">While in no way am I defending Bill Johnson, I would encourage
people to read the chapter "Is Kenosis Orthodox?" in the 2006 book
EXPLORING KENOTIC CHRISTIANITY (most of the chapter is available on
books.google.com). The book is a collection of works by scholars from various
theological traditions and the Reformed view is presented as well.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span class="comment-timestamp"><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt; letter-spacing: 1.2pt; text-transform: uppercase;"><a href="http://puritanbob.blogspot.com/2006/03/gospel-of-signs-and-wonders.html?showComment=1243711418686#c1888957603393860748" title="comment permalink"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;">12:23 PM</span></a></span></span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt; letter-spacing: 1.2pt; text-transform: uppercase;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<a href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" name="c6807672426942765401"></a><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"><img border="0" height="16" src="file:///C:\Users\owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image002.gif" title="Anonymous" v:shapes="_x0000_i1028" width="16" /><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<a href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" name="c6181902203413945462"></a><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/08870494633425034894"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;"><img border="0" class="delayLoad" height="35" longdesc="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh4X0sp1kl37jXLaWUzcTnd8WmTTzG_hwgwOsZsHOxOVIAAmDx7EVzW03VzZBUzO9h1AcOO2i6ioEIwBHMUY3Pmv22ma-LM485TW1EfVJkLUQ5lbJa8qr64hDyYKimG6pDGb5Acs4M18NGE/s45/transparent+logo.gif" src="file:///C:\Users\owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image005.gif" title="TK" v:shapes="_x0000_i1029" width="35" /></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<a href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" name="c614911397364322085"></a><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/13588511122036937713"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;"><img border="0" height="16" src="file:///C:\Users\owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image003.gif" title="Glenn" v:shapes="_x0000_i1030" width="16" /></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/13588511122036937713"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;">Glenn</span></a> said...<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;">I am so relieved to come across an honest and biblical critique
of Bill Johnson's teaching. I have just finished reading a copy of his latest
book 'The Supernatural power of a transformed mind' that a friend insist I
read. It is simply a further elaboration of the same distorted gospel that
permeates 'When heaven invades earth.' Johnson continues to ramp up his theory
that Jesus was a little less than divine when he ministered. Bill's commitment
to the kenosis theory seems to be for the purpose of elevating man to a level
where everything depends on what we do or say. God becomes a little less
sovereign and we become a little more omnipotent. It all gets subtly packed in
around 'testimonies and stories', so the enthusiastic Christian can easily get
swept along if they don't take the time to slow down and evaluate the warped
doctrine behind it all. This type of teaching deserves to be challenged as it
damages the true gospel and builds a hollow faith that tends to minimise the
cross and salvation. I'm concerned at the impact I can see it having in my own
church as people seem to become dogmatic about defending Johnson rather than
weighing his teachings against scripture in context. Your review is very
insightful Bob. Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span class="comment-timestamp"><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt; letter-spacing: 1.2pt; text-transform: uppercase;"><a href="http://puritanbob.blogspot.com/2006/03/gospel-of-signs-and-wonders.html?showComment=1270041426943#c614911397364322085" title="comment permalink"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;">6:17 AM</span></a></span></span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt; letter-spacing: 1.2pt; text-transform: uppercase;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<a href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" id="av-9-10208316300298188278" name="c6962657564162314055"></a><a href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" name="c8151624604624233504"></a><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"><img border="0" height="16" src="file:///C:\Users\owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image002.gif" title="Anonymous" v:shapes="_x0000_i1031" width="16" />Anonymous said...<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;">I love the book! If Jesus didn't operate fully as a man(Eph
2:7,8)under the power of the Holy Spirit, then there is no atonement. That is
the whole point. He lived a perfect life for us, in our place. Then died on the
cross for us, in our place. How would it be a "substitutionary"
atonement if Jesus didn't do it strictly as a man? (Heb 4:15)<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span class="comment-timestamp"><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt; letter-spacing: 1.2pt; text-transform: uppercase;"><a href="http://puritanbob.blogspot.com/2006/03/gospel-of-signs-and-wonders.html?showComment=1293949870970#c8151624604624233504" title="comment permalink"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;">10:31 PM</span></a></span></span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt; letter-spacing: 1.2pt; text-transform: uppercase;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<a href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" id="av-11-13487404072546513179" name="c5883498715881318358"></a><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/13487404072546513179"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;"><img border="0" class="delayLoad" height="35" longdesc="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj1MCtrQsOlQpRJFZJe5Y7xnlFjHzsOhZmAJf3Rsx7Yigbf8vy-EeXtoth_fFYvIYZzGJtEsxrRPCKdY5g2yuYOaz22Ljug9ZxMQlUUMsvQrL5Po3cvP-cCsBzhywLHxvwTeX9jA_TXYKA/s45/luther.gif" src="file:///C:\Users\owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image007.gif" title="Bob" v:shapes="_x0000_i1032" width="35" /></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/13487404072546513179"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;">Bob</span></a> said...<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<a href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" name="c6813515387386629492"></a><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;">Anonymous-<br />
Jesus is the God man, He was made altogether like us in human flesh, He felt
pain, He got tired, He grew up from infancy etc this is all true. However, to
leave it there as Johnson seems to is not the WHOLE truth. Orthodox
Christiainity through all ages has affirmed while the above is true in regard
to Christ's human nature, it is equally true that Christ is also fully Divine
in nature. All of the creeds have affirmed this doctrine and it is summed up in
the phrase, Christ is both fully man and fully God, one person with two
seperate and distinct natures.<br />
<br />
With that said, what you said about the atonement is indeed true, it just isn't
the whole truth. Jesus needed to take on human flesh so He could die (God can't
die remember). Yet, and this is the error, Johnson wants to assert that in
taking on flesh Jesus also took off Divinity. Johnson does this because he
wants us to see Jesus more as our model for supernatural life than the most exceptional
Person ever.<br />
<br />
Thus, in Johnson's zeal for making supernatural signs and wonders an everday
Christian thing he tosses the Divine nature of Christ making Him our entirely
immitatable example. It is true that Christ is our example, but again not the
whole truth. This is because He also had Divine attributes and a calling
(Messiah) that none of us share in.<br />
<br />
I must add on the calling aspect that the signs Christ performed in His earthly
ministry were confirmatory in nature in regard to His messiahship and message
(gospel). That is why He could tell John the Baptist when asked by John
"are you the one?" Jesus replied, "The dead are raised the sick
are healed..." In short Jesus said "You see the signs don't
you?" This again mitigates our ability to immitate as the signs performed
by the Messiah and His apostles were intended to be unique confirming their
ministry and the new covenant gospel message. Thus, they would hardly be unique
and confirmatory if Bill Johnson is correct and these things are to be going on
all the time.<br />
<br />
I am not saying that these things can not and do not happen today, but I am
saying that the particular manifestation of signs and wonders under the
ministry of Christ and the apostles was unique, and that was the point.<br />
<br />
Sorry for the brevity, but those are the 2 things to take into consideration.
1. Christ did not dump His divinity at the incarnation, and 2. Signs and
wonders performed by the Messiah and His apostles would hardly be confirming of
their message if signs and wonders were a normal everyday thing. That's what
makes them signs (pointer to something) and wonders (an unusual occurance)after
all.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span class="comment-timestamp"><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt; letter-spacing: 1.2pt; text-transform: uppercase;"><a href="http://puritanbob.blogspot.com/2006/03/gospel-of-signs-and-wonders.html?showComment=1294162944377#c6813515387386629492" title="comment permalink"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;">9:42 AM</span></a></span></span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt; letter-spacing: 1.2pt; text-transform: uppercase;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<a href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" id="av-13-13487404072546513179" name="c2591008126817815885"></a><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/13487404072546513179"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;"><img border="0" class="delayLoad" height="35" longdesc="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj1MCtrQsOlQpRJFZJe5Y7xnlFjHzsOhZmAJf3Rsx7Yigbf8vy-EeXtoth_fFYvIYZzGJtEsxrRPCKdY5g2yuYOaz22Ljug9ZxMQlUUMsvQrL5Po3cvP-cCsBzhywLHxvwTeX9jA_TXYKA/s45/luther.gif" src="file:///C:\Users\owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image007.gif" title="Bob" v:shapes="_x0000_i1033" width="35" /></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/13487404072546513179"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;">Bob</span></a> said...<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;">Also, and this is so huge I feel bad for neglecting to add it as
it is the most important point, it would be impossible for one mere man to die
for the sins of even one man substitutionarily let alone many men. Jesus
couldn't have done that strictly as a man, the dying part yes, the substitution
no, He needed to be fully God as well to bear all the sins of me, let alone
billions of others. Only God can placate God's wrath both being infinite.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span class="comment-timestamp"><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt; letter-spacing: 1.2pt; text-transform: uppercase;"><a href="http://puritanbob.blogspot.com/2006/03/gospel-of-signs-and-wonders.html?showComment=1294163986993#c2591008126817815885" title="comment permalink"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;">9:59 AM</span></a></span></span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt; letter-spacing: 1.2pt; text-transform: uppercase;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<a href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" id="av-14-04190363425699495025" name="c5427515773931108466"></a><a href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" name="c7932881160251973533"></a><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"><a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;"><img border="0" height="16" src="file:///C:\Users\owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image002.gif" title="Craig" v:shapes="_x0000_i1034" width="16" /></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"><a href="http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;">Craig</span></a> said...<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;">A previous comment referenced Evans’ <i>Exploring Kenotic
Christology</i>. I have the book and here’s a synopsis of <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Davis</st1:place></st1:city>’ essay “Is Kenosis Orthodox?” In short,
the answer is “no.” Davis attempts to distinguished between ‘essential’ and
‘accidental’ divine attributes with the ‘omni’ traits merely ‘accidental’ such
that God is, for example,
“omnipotent-unless-freely-and-temporarily-choosing-to-be-otherwise.” Of course,
this denies immutability, but <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Davis</st1:place></st1:city>
gets around this by claiming it’s merely “soft immutability” and the Word, of
course, subsequently re-attains all the ‘omni’ attributes upon Ascension.
Essentially, <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Davis</st1:place></st1:city>
has redefined<i>God</i>. However, both John 2:19 and 10:17-18 indicate that
Jesus was in fact omnipotent as He raised Himself on the Third Day. [In fact,
the entire Trinity was involved in the Resurrection as other Scripture
attests.] That’s the real crux (pun intended) of the matter. Moreover, the Word
must have retained and utilized omnipotence, omnipresence, and omniscience in
order to sustain the cosmos [cf. Colossians 1:16-17; Hebrews 1:3]. Thus,
kenosis theories are insupportable by Scripture consequently, as such, they are
by definition unorthodox and I would contend heresy.<br />
<br />
You can read more here:<br />
<br />
http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/06/14/kenosis-christology-and-bill-johnson-part-i/<br />
<br />
http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/06/16/kenosis-christology-and-bill-johnson-part-ii/<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span class="comment-timestamp"><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt; letter-spacing: 1.2pt; text-transform: uppercase;"><a href="http://puritanbob.blogspot.com/2006/03/gospel-of-signs-and-wonders.html?showComment=1321234249095#c7932881160251973533" title="comment permalink"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;">5:30 PM</span></a></span></span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt; letter-spacing: 1.2pt; text-transform: uppercase;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<a href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" name="c6400430784007212454"></a><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"><img <="" border="0" height="16" span="" src="file:///C:\Users\owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image002.gif" width="16" />
style='orphans: 2;widows: 2;-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
word-spacing:0px' title=Anonymous v:shapes="_x0000_i1035"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;">Anonymous said...<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;">1 Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his
Cushite wife, for he had married a Cushite. 2 “Has the LORD spoken only through
Moses?” they asked. “Hasn’t he also spoken through us?” And the LORD heard
this.<br />
<br />
3 (Now Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of
the earth.)<br />
<br />
4 At once the LORD said to Moses, Aaron and Miriam, “Come out to the tent of
meeting, all three of you.” So the three of them went out. 5 Then the LORD came
down in a pillar of cloud; he stood at the entrance to the tent and summoned
Aaron and Miriam. When the two of them stepped forward, 6 he said, “Listen to
my words:<br />
<br />
“When there is a prophet among you,<br />
I, the LORD, reveal myself to them in visions,<br />
I speak to them in dreams.<br />
7 But this is not true of my servant Moses;<br />
he is faithful in all my house.<br />
8 With him I speak face to face,<br />
clearly and not in riddles;<br />
he sees the form of the LORD.<br />
Why then were you not afraid<br />
to speak against my servant Moses?”<br />
<br />
9 The anger of the LORD burned against them, and he left them.<br />
<br />
To everyone hating on Bill Johnson - You are naive to talk against God's
servant.<br />
<br />
"Men of <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Israel</st1:place></st1:country-region>,
consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. 36 Some time ago Theudas
appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him.
He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. 37
After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band
of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered.
38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them
go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But
if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find
yourselves fighting against God.”<br />
<br />
This forum and others like it are utter rubbish. What is the point of hating on
men and women of God who walk with God daily? You're only fighting against God
himself.<br />
<br />
I ask how many of you here posting negative comments about Bill do as Jesus
commanded us and "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have
leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give." Not
only are we to do these, but dare to refute Jesus himself when He says:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have
been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going
to the Father."<br />
<br />
Even if Bill does have some bits of theology wrong (I'm not at all backing your
statements) since He is living and growing in Christ won't God give him
revelation on these if what he currently preaches is destroying God's
church?<br />
<br />
Anyway have a good day everyone!<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span class="comment-timestamp"><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt; letter-spacing: 1.2pt; text-transform: uppercase;"><a href="http://puritanbob.blogspot.com/2006/03/gospel-of-signs-and-wonders.html?showComment=1330234461329#c6400430784007212454" title="comment permalink"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;">9:34 PM</span></a></span></span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt; letter-spacing: 1.2pt; text-transform: uppercase;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<a href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" id="av-18-13487404072546513179" name="c2624475951017047761"></a><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/13487404072546513179"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;"><img border="0" class="delayLoad" height="35" longdesc="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj1MCtrQsOlQpRJFZJe5Y7xnlFjHzsOhZmAJf3Rsx7Yigbf8vy-EeXtoth_fFYvIYZzGJtEsxrRPCKdY5g2yuYOaz22Ljug9ZxMQlUUMsvQrL5Po3cvP-cCsBzhywLHxvwTeX9jA_TXYKA/s45/luther.gif" src="file:///C:\Users\owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image007.gif" title="Bob" v:shapes="_x0000_i1036" width="35" /></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/13487404072546513179"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;">Bob</span></a> said...<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;">This forum and others like it are utter rubbish. What is the
point of hating on men and women of God who walk with God daily? You're only
fighting against God himself.</span></i><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt;"> -Anonymous<br />
<br />
Well that's begging the question, I can't see Bill's personal relationship with
God but I wouldn't put him in the same catagory as Moses. We are called to test
all things, rather than just suspend our discernment. Here's one that will
throw you for a loop, I walk with God daily too...I disagree with Bill
Johnson...whose side are you on? Why is your criticism of me not fighting
against God like my criticism of Bill?<br />
<br />
Is Bill more of a Christian than me? Why is he untouchable but I am not?<br />
<br />
<i>"Even if Bill does have some bits of theology wrong (I'm not at all
backing your statements) since He is living and growing in Christ won't God
give him revelation on these if what he currently preaches is destroying God's
church?"</i><br />
<br />
God takes teaching error far more seriously than you seem to think He should.
God gave His entire church the final revelation in scripture, I don't need men
and their private conversations with God I have a Bible as my authority. Bill
has that as well, he is in no need of some private word from God saying,
"Hey Bill, you are teaching error..." That's the Bible's job and that
was the point of the post, a Biblical examination of the teachings of
Mr.Johnson.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span class="comment-timestamp"><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt; letter-spacing: 1.2pt; text-transform: uppercase;"><a href="http://puritanbob.blogspot.com/2006/03/gospel-of-signs-and-wonders.html?showComment=1330364318700#c2624475951017047761" title="comment permalink"><span style="color: #333333; text-decoration: none;">9:38 AM</span></a></span></span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 10.5pt; letter-spacing: 1.2pt; text-transform: uppercase;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-66456713779615218452012-06-18T01:14:00.000-07:002012-07-25T23:12:23.173-07:00God Delivers Another from the Cult of Jesus Culture<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<i><b><span style="color: purple; font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;">For he will deliver you from the snare of the fowler</span></b></i></div>
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<i><b><span style="color: purple; font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><a alt="esv_12" class="va" href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" rel="v19091003" style="outline: 0px;"></a>and from the deadly pestilence.</span></b></i></div>
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<i><i style="background-color: white; text-indent: -3.5em;"><b><span style="color: purple; font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;">He will cover you with his pinions,</span></b></i></i></div>
<i><b><span style="color: purple; font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><a alt="esv_01" class="va" href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" rel="v19091004" style="outline: 0px;"></a></span></b></i><br />
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<i><b><span style="color: purple; font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><a alt="esv_08" class="va" href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" rel="v19091004" style="outline: 0px;"></a>and under his wings you will find refuge;</span></b></i></div>
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<i><b><span style="color: purple; font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><a alt="esv_16" class="va" href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=1195845373057398611" rel="v19091004" style="outline: 0px;"></a>his faithfulness is a shield and buckler.</span></b></i></div>
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<span style="background-color: white; color: purple; font-family: Times, 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -4em;">Psalm 91: 2-4</span></div>
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<span style="color: #373737; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 24px; text-align: justify; text-indent: 0px;"><span style="font-size: large;"><b>How God Rescued Me From Bill Johnson’s Cult</b> </span></span></div>
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<span style="color: #373737; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 24px; text-align: justify; text-indent: 0px;">by Shofar B. </span><span style="background-color: white; color: #363030; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 18px; text-align: justify; text-indent: 0px;">From </span><a href="http://closingstages.net/2012/02/28/beth-hell/#comments" style="background-color: white; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 18px; text-align: justify; text-indent: 0px;">ClosingStages.net</a><span style="color: #363030; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 18px; text-indent: -64px;"> </span>
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Last year around Christmas time, I was part of a prayer group where I live. It was a small group that met 1-2 times a week. All of us were DESPERATELY seeking God. It was a good fellowship. One evening after the session ended, I was tinkering around on the drums when one of the brothers, Dan came up to me with a look of soft urgency in his eyes. Seeming not to notice that I was in deep focus trying to perfect a drum rudiment, he proceeded to interrupt me with a question…in a notch above whispering my name he asked me, ”have you ever heard of Bill Johnson??” Still working out drum patterns and attempting to simultaneously reply, I answered…”I ‘ve heard the name before. I know he’s in California but I don’t know much about him.” </div>
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At this response, I saw Dan’s face light up as if he had just received a shot of adrenaline. I knew he was ready to share, so sensing this, my drumming gradually teetered off into a complete silence. It was then that Dan began to advise and enlighten me about Bill Johnson’s Bethel Church in Redding Ca. Also he gave me the scoop about the churches School of Supernatural Ministry. [Side note: I hate typing for long periods of time so this is going to be a truncated account and I'll add more details over time.] Okay, so Dan who has no binding ties to Bethel, suddenly sounded like one of their top recruiters/ pitchmen. </div>
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He began to tell me about how the presence of God permeated and saturated the campus at Bethel. He RAVED about the school. He RAVED about the music in the worship services. He RAVED about the teachings of Bill Johnson and Kris Vallatton. He raved about everything from the prayer tower to the coffee shop. After about an hour and a half of what could’ve EASILY qualified to have been a top notch infomercial, Dan made me an offer that two weeks later I found out…”I couldn’t refuse.” Dan told me that he was so confident that my walk with Christ would intensify by leaps and bounds by going to Bethel, that if I agreed to go, NOT ONLY would he pay my transportation there…he would also PAY THE $9000.00 Tuition required to attend the School of Supernatural Ministry.</div>
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At the time it really sounded cool, but I was comfy here at home and saw no need to make any rash moves. However, later, some things were being shaken up at home and I began to lose peace. I remembered Dan telling me of the intense peace that was present aroung the Bethel atmosphere. Being that he contacted frequently to pitch me on Bethel after that prayer meeting night, it was during one of the times we made contact…I succumbed. I said okay Dan…I’ll go check it out. The next day we were at the Greyhound station. However, I got cold feet and asked for more time to think about it. After all this was new territory for me, new town, nowhere to live, new people was no big deal…I’m as gregarious as they come. I LOVE PEOPLE!!! Anyway, after thinking about it, I took the dive. The next day I was off to Redding. Set up with a nice motel, I found my way to Bethel the next day, and this would be the beginning of the road to my NIGHTMARE. Please note though, it didn’t start out that way. </div>
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<span style="background-color: white; font-size: 15px; text-align: left;">When I attended Bethel for the first time it was LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT!! And that ”love” would continue for the next two months. I immediately called Dan to tell him how right he was about everything. I even went on to tell him that he UNDERSTATED his description. I SWORE that I had died and gone to heaven. People seemed to really love Jesus. The view from the top of the mountain was ABSOLUTELY BREATHTAKING!!! There was something going on ALL OF THE TIME…LITERALLY 24/7. Being one that’s GREEDY FOR GOD, it was the perfect milieu for me and my insatiable appetite for HIM. There were ubiquitous house groups within the community and I loved attending them. It reminded me of the New Testament church in Acts. </span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;">I went to EVERY possible function that I could, and there were ”ZILLIONS”. During a house meeting I was offered a place to stay…for FREE. And that was just in the nick of time as I began running out of money. A few days later, I began living with students from Bethel’s school. Still floating on a cloud, I just seemed to see God’s hand moving at every turn I made. Even from my first visit, I would get myriad ”words of knowledge” spoken to me by many people EVERYDAY. I still have them written down. I think maybe ONE came true, but I know NOW that it was just a lucky guess..the rest em’?? UN-lucky guesses…lol.</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;">So to make a long story short , I absorbed every thing Bethel offered I dove in seven days a week. I had my first ”fire tunnel” experience at a house…my first impression…OVERRATED!! While everyone else that went through it laughed and convulsed hysterically, I was unaffected EVEN in spite of the countless attempts of others to ”IMPART” (one of their buzz words) into me what they were feeling. </span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;">Also, I found it strange that I couldn’t even communicate with people even about simples matters like the weather or a basketball game without them jerking, shaking or convulsing…these convulsions were so profuse within the cult that for me it QUICKLY became overkill. </span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;">Another idiosyncrasy was the constant belting out of the phrase…”’WHOA” OR ”WOE” This is heard constantly. Still seeing through rose colored glasses though, I overlooked the weird behavior and justified it by concluding that ”God loves it when his kids are having fun with Him” Gradually though, I started deducing that this wasn’t mere fun…it was borderline mockery, the shaking, the jerking, the laughing, the cackling, the convulsing….it just went on TOOOO MUCH!!! If it were done in moderation, it may have gone undetected by me, but this was INSANE!!! </span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white; text-align: -webkit-auto;">Later, I started noticing a LOT of name dropping from the pulpit (mostly from Bill Johnson) of false prophets and wolves like Bob Jones, Patricia King, Todd Bentley, Heidi Baker, and a plethora of others… This was constant, and when these names were mentioned, cheers went up with the fervor and magnitude of a Super Bowl touchdown reaction. During my entire time there, I NEVER ONCE heard Jesus get even a fraction of that type of praise,worship, or delightful frenzy. I might add that NEVER ONCE did I hear salvation, repentance, holiness, righteousness, judgment, or wrath preached, neither from the pulpit nor when I’d travel the streets with them. The whole business plan (because it’s NOT a ministry) is to focus on LYING signs and wonders….impotent magic tricks. I’ve always wondered why Bill would rave about all of these so-called and UNDOCUMENTED ”miracles” happening through Bethel around the world, YET, when it comes to home, we never get to see any of em’ manifested. For instance, Bill and his wife both wear prescription glasses…where’s the healing?? Bill had a hernia surgically removed…WHAT??? No miracle?? Bill’s son Eric is deaf and has a speech impediment…C’mon Bill…that’s your son..HEAL HIM!!!…Bill and his wife have gray hair (a sign of zinc deficiency)…but no ”supernatural” intervention has taken place, yet all of this GREAT stuff is happening EVERYWHERE ELSE EXCEPT HOME ON BETHEL’S TURF!!! Gimme a break!!!.</span></div>
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The real thing that got me though was the death of little J.C. the infant of two dear Korean friends of mine. He died from cancer at two years old. Prayers went out for him every second of the day. People jerked, shook, laughed, convulsed, spoke in (FAKE/DEMONIC) tongues over him…the works…and when he died, we were left with feeble excuses like ”God needed him more” kind of CRAP!!! Around this time I had already stopped going to the church. When I first got there, for the first two months, because God gifted me with charisma, celebrity looks (and I don’t say that arrogantly) and the ability to draw people, I instantly became EXTREMLEY popular. By the time I left Redding, I was considered a pariah in some circles and cliques within. Even though I lived with Bethel students, I began to expose Bethel, Bill Johnson, Kris Vallaton, Danny Silk, and ALL of the celebrity WOLVES in their within their evil and deceptive cabal. People that used to ”love” me (so they said), snubbed me on the streets. They unfriended me on facebook. They’d give me looks of sheer disdain whenever we’d cross paths…we’re talkin’ some of the same people that I’ve prayed with, broke bread with, and had gotten venerably intimate with. When I stopped going to the church and began staying home and listening to REAL MINISTERS OF GOD like Michael Boldea and Mike Hoggard, Paul Washer and David Eells, I got flack from my roommates saying that those guy were mad and didn’t know God.They asked me not to play their sermons But I’d ignore their comments and continued to feed on what was REAL GOSPEL. I would often challenge my roomies and other Bethel ”robots” on Bill and Kris’ theology and their twisted new age ”sermons” WITH SCRIPTURE and it ceased to surprise me anymore that they’d rebuttle my challenges with quotes from one of Bill or Kris’ books. IMAGINE THAT!!! They ALWAYS tried to refute GOD’S WORD with quotes from books written by their false teachers. Can you say MIND CONTROL???</div>
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So after 2 months, I stopped going. I continued to live with the students because it was a ”phat crib” OR, a nice house for those who are linguistically challenged in ”SLANG”…LOL <img alt=":)" class="wp-smiley" src="http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif?m=1129645325g" style="border: none; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-top: 0px; max-width: 97.5%; padding: 0px;" /> I was paying rent by this time in a new home and different students. The landlord approached me one day while shooting ball in the yard and told me that if I didn’t start attending Bethel and doing what they call ”SOZO” classes (which is simply /new age mysticism/chanting/ contemplative prayer or ”soaking” kinda stuff) that I would have to find somewhere else to live. It was my 4th month in Redding and that was my ”Q” to leave. My wife was on the phone when this happened. I had my bluetooth in my ear and the landlord wasn’t aware that I was on a phone call at the time. My wife COULD NOT BELIEVE HER EARS!!! We both knew it was time to ”GIT OUTTA DARE”.</div>
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I became good friends with Mike Hoggard while going through that trying period, and he REALLY helped sustain me in prayer and encouraging words. I initially was going to relocate to where he is and get some discipleship and restoration. But God led me home. Let me give you one more story here before I close. There was a class held every Sunday called ”Fire Starters” birthed out of the Toronto Blessing movement. This class was supposed to ..get this…”TEACH” PEOPLE HOW TO PROPHESY…LOL!!! Yes…I laughed too!! So anyway, every class people were randomly called to the front of the room, they were lined up, and asked to pick someone in the room and give them a word of knowledge…BUT THERE WERE RULES…WHAT EVER YOU SAID HAD TO BE SWEET, KIND, AND MAKE THE PERSON ”FEEL” GOOD…Those are the rules verbatim!!! </div>
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After weeks of seeing this nonsense and people stating the obvious and touting it as hearing from God, out of frustration, one Saturday night, I decided to MAKE UP, FABRICATE a ”word of knowledge” just in case I would be picked out to prophesy in tomorrow’s class. And whaddaya know…I get picked. When my turn came, I shared my FABRICATED ”word’. It was this, ”there’s someone here who’s been strategizing suicide, and the devil is tormenting you. If you’ll raise your hand, we can pray for you and you can be released.” Much to my surprise, a hand went up…WOW….I’m like okay God, you used my prank to REALLY get someone’s attention. ”Praise You”. </div>
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But I was about to get an even BIGGER surprise, because, I immediately thought the room would shut down and people would bombard this poor girl who planned to take her life, so they could pray and labor over her soul, but NO!!! That’s NOT what happened. Instead, I got reprimanded by Kevin Dedmond, one of the ”leaders” (you can see his crap on you tube w/Sid Roth),and I was told that I’m to only say things that make people feel good. And they resumed right back into letting people perform their exercises of divination, cause that’s what it REALLY is. </div>
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More upsetting is that when class dismissed, out of a room of about 150ppl, I only saw 2 people (excluding myself), a couple go minister to that girl…everyone else??? Well, they were too anxious to go through the FRUITLESS ”fire tunnel” so that they could appease their flesh…and so they did…THEY LAUGHED, THEY JERKED, THEY SHOOK, THEY CONVULSED, THEY WRITHED IN THE FLOOR, and to this very day…they call it GOD. </div>
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When they finally DO meet God they’ll not be laughing anymore!!! I’d like to thank Pat Rogers from ”ANGRY SHEEP” for encouraging me to share this with you all. Believe me, there’s soooooooooo much more to share and I’ll add on as things come to mind. You have to realize that I only hunt and peck 20 wpm, so typing , for now anyway, isn’t my forte. Getting ready to take classes though. Please forgive any type-o’s. Love You All in the Lord and I pray that in some way you were blessed, edified, or educated through this writing. God Bless You, Shofar <img alt=":)" class="wp-smiley" src="http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif?m=1129645325g" style="border: none; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-top: 0px; max-width: 97.5%; padding: 0px;" /></div>
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</div>Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-28109279921796559342012-06-15T22:34:00.000-07:002012-06-16T03:45:27.889-07:00Test the Spirits of Jesus Culture || Don't Be Deceived<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; tab-stops: list .5in; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;"><b><span style="background-color: white; font-family: Candara;">Did Jesus Christ really “lay His divinity aside”? </span></b></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; tab-stops: list .5in; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;"><b><span style="background-color: white; font-family: Candara;">Was He
always God, or just sometimes?</span></b><b><span style="font-family: Candara;"><o:p></o:p></span></b></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; tab-stops: list .5in; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;"><b><span style="background-color: white; font-family: Candara;">Did Jesus Christ come so that
Christians would rule the earth?</span></b><b><span style="font-family: Candara;"><o:p></o:p></span></b></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; tab-stops: list .5in; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;"><b><span style="background-color: white; font-family: Candara;">Was Jesus Christ "born
again" after His death on the cross?</span></b><b><span style="font-family: Candara;"><o:p></o:p></span></b></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; tab-stops: list .5in; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;"><b><span style="background-color: white; font-family: Candara;">Did Jesus Christ come so that
we would become sinless and divine while on earth?</span></b><b><span style="font-family: Candara;"><o:p></o:p></span></b></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; tab-stops: list .5in; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;"><b><span style="background-color: white; font-family: Candara;">Did He come so that we would
"walk in the supernatural", "rise up out of the earth"
and "decree things into existence," and overcome every sickness
by the "spirit of prophecy"?</span></b><b><span style="font-family: Candara;"><o:p></o:p></span></b></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; tab-stops: list .5in; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;"><b><span style="background-color: white; font-family: Candara;">Is the Holy Spirit evidenced
by barking, twitching, howling, hiccupping, twitching, shaking, rolling on
the floor, moaning, rocking, and falling down?</span></b><b><span style="font-family: Candara;"><o:p></o:p></span></b></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; tab-stops: list .5in; text-align: justify;"><b><span style="background-color: white; font-family: Candara; font-size: large;">Was Jesus Christ's mission
primarily to do supernatural feats?</span></b><b><span style="font-family: Candara;"><o:p></o:p></span></b></li>
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Arial;">We raise
these questions, because these are the teachings of Bethelism that you will
hear at Jesus Culture conferences, from teachers like Banning Liebscher and
Bill Johnson. They present a version of Jesus Christ. It is not the Jesus
Christ of the Bible. You will also hear--and see--another Holy Spirit at Jesus
Culture. He is not the Holy Spirit of the Bible.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Arial;">The apostle John, one of the original disciples of Jesus
Christ, faced the same problem in his day. There were different
ideas going around about who Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit were.
Only one was true, and the rest were false. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Arial;">In John’s first letter, he addresses this problem to
followers of Jesus to warn them. God has preserved His Word for us, so that we,
too, would be warned, about false christs, and false spirits, and not to follow
them. The<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial;"><a href="http://guzik.biblecommenter.com/1_john/4.htm"><span style="background-color: white;">commentary</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="background-color: white;"> </span></span><span style="background-color: white;">is provided by David Guzik, a pastor in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:state w:st="on">California</st1:state></st1:place>. </span><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Arial;">One of the
great characteristics of the end times is described in the New Testament as
deception, or delusion, on a grand, perhaps unprecedented scale. The Lord Jesus
warned that the deception that is coming in His Name and accompanied by
great shows of power will be so convincing that even the very elect, that
is, those who truly know Him, stand in danger of being carried away in the
deception (Matthew 24:24).<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Arial;">The Apostle
Paul discusses the same idea. In explaining the end-time delusion that will go
along with the world's acceptance of Satan himself as the savior of the world,
he points out that when this "man of sin" arrives on the scene, he
will be accompanied by great signs and wonders (2 Thessalonians
2:9).<br />
<br />
When looked at alonsgisde the Lord's prediction in Matthew 24, there is no
reason to believe that this entrance by Satan on the world stage will be
accompanied by anything less than healing, casting out of demons, and raising
the dead in the name of Jesus!<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Arial;">Such a
situation might have seemed impossible a decade or so ago. But with the
acceptance by the world--and particularly of youth, who are the next generation
of Christians--of some of the current beliefs taught by Jesus Culture and
similar ministries, it is not difficult to imagine that such total, world-wide
delusion could take place.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Arial;">Much of the
"church" is not Biblically trained. Many do not even believe that
they can be deceived, although Scripture warns about this many times. Many have
come to believe that the purpose of our lives is to "get" what we can
from God, and to live out our grand destiny of conquering adventures for Him,
our toy holsters equipped with supernatural powers like Mighty Morphin Power
Rangers. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Arial;">Many
"seek signs" although Jesus tells us not to (Luke 11:29, Matthew
16:4, John 6:26, 1 Corinthians 1:22) And many seem to be obsessed with the
subject of "signs and wonders," healing, and the "greater
works," totally beyond the magnitude and scope of what occurred during the
time of the New Testament when the church was established. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Arial;">Paul
worried that this very thing would overcome the believers in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Corinth</st1:city></st1:place>. He wrote, <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="background-color: white; font-family: Arial;">But I am afraid that,
as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your <o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<i><span style="background-color: white; font-family: Arial;">minds will be led
astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.<br />
For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached,<br />
or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different <o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<i><span style="background-color: white; font-family: Arial;">gospel which you
have not accepted, you bear this beautifully. <o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Arial;">(2 Corinthians 11:3-4) <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Arial;">This
generation's "signs and wonders" fixation may be nothing less than a
set-up to prepare the way for the one "whose coming is after the working
of Satan, with all power and signs and lying wonders..."<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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</span> <b style="background-color: white; color: #001320; font-size: 11pt; text-align: left;"><span style="color: #0092f2;"><a href="http://biblebrowser.com/1_john/4-1.htm">1 John 4</a></span></b><br />
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<b><span style="color: #552200; font-size: 11pt;">New American Standard Bible<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<span style="background-color: white; color: #001320; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14pt;"> </span><i><span style="background-color: white; color: #001320; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14pt;"> <a href="http://bible.cc/1_john/4-1.htm" target="_top"><b><span style="color: #0092f2; text-decoration: none;">1</span></b></a>Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see </span></i></div>
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<i><span style="background-color: white; color: #001320; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14pt;"> whether they are from God, because many false prophets have </span></i></div>
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<i><span style="background-color: white; color: #001320; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14pt;"> gone out into the world. <a href="http://bible.cc/1_john/4-2.htm" target="_top"><b><span style="color: #0092f2; text-decoration: none;">2</span></b></a>By this you know the Spirit of God: </span></i></div>
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<i><span style="background-color: white; color: #001320; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14pt;"> every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the </span></i></div>
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<i><span style="background-color: white; color: #001320; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14pt;"> flesh is from God; <a href="http://bible.cc/1_john/4-3.htm" target="_top"><b><span style="color: #0092f2; text-decoration: none;">3</span></b></a>and every spirit that does not confess Jesus</span></i></div>
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<i><span style="background-color: white; color: #001320; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14pt;"> is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you </span></i></div>
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<i><span style="background-color: white; color: #001320; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14pt;"> have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. </span></i></div>
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<b><i><span style="color: #001320; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Commentary by David
Guzik:</span></i></b><span style="color: #001320; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in; text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">A. Protection against
the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in; text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">1. (1) The fact of false
prophets and the need to test the spirits.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: maroon; font-size: 14pt;">Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but
test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have
gone out into the world.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in; text-align: justify;">
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">a. </span><b><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">Do not believe every
spirit</span></b><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">:
John warned against believing </span><b><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">every spirit</span></b><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">; that is, we are never to assume every
spiritual experience or every demonstration of spiritual power is from God. We
must test spiritual experiences and spiritual phenomenon to see if they are in
fact from God.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0in; text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">i. Many, when first
encountering the <i>reality</i> of the spiritual world, are too impressed
and amazed to ask </span><b><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">whether they are of God</span></b><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">. This leads to easy deception.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">b. </span><b><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">But test the spirits</span></b><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">: This is important
because </span><b><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">many false prophets have gone out into the world</span></b><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">. Even though the early
church had a strong life, and a large measure of purity, John still knew the
danger false prophets and their message was real in the early church.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">c. </span><b><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">Test the spirits,
whether they are of God</span></b><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">: This is the responsibility of every Christian, but
especially of congregational leadership. According to 1 Corinthians 14:29 (<i>let
the others judge</i>) and 1 Thessalonians 5:20-21 (<i>Test all things; hold
fast what is good</i>), testing the spirits is the work of the body of Christ.
This job is to be done using the gifts of discernment God has given to
Christians in general, especially the leadership of a congregation.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">i. All prophecy is to be
judged by Scriptural standards. It is never to be received just because it is
dramatic or given by a certain person. We trust in the principle that God will
never contradict Himself, and we <i>know</i> what He has already said
in His Word.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">ii. 2 Peter 1:20-21
tells us true prophecy is never <i>of any private interpretation</i>. This
means that there will be agreement and confirmation from the body of Christ,
though perhaps (or probably) not <i>everyone</i> will agree or
confirm.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">2. (2-3) How to know
when a false prophet speaks.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: maroon; font-size: 14pt;">By this you know the Spirit of God: Every
spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and
every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is
not of God. And this is the <i>spirit</i> of the Antichrist, which
you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">a. </span><b><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">Every spirit that
confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God</span></b><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">: True prophecy, and
true teaching, will present a true Jesus. In John’s day, the issue was about if
Jesus had <i>truly</i> come in a <i>real</i> body of flesh
and blood. Many Gnostic-influenced teachers said that Jesus, being God, could
not have actually become a flesh and blood human, because God could have no
partnership with “impure” material stuff.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">i. “This statement would
be directed against some form of Docetism, the view that Christ was a spirit
who only seemed to be a true man.” (Boice)<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">ii. Today, some groups
deny that Jesus is really God (such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and
Muslims). But way back in John’s day, in this time closest to the actual life
and ministry of Jesus on this earth, people didn’t have a hard time believing
Jesus was God. They had a hard time believing that he was a <i>real</i> man.
This false teaching said Jesus was truly God (which is correct), but really a
“make-believe” man.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">iii. Today, we are
passionate about saying, “Jesus is God,” and we should be. But it is no less
important to say, “Jesus is a man,” because both the deity and humanity of
Jesus are essential to our salvation.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">b. </span><b><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">Every spirit that
confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God</span></b><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">: Some think that this
is the <i>only</i> test of false doctrine. This is not the only test,
but it was the significant issue challenging the church in John’s immediate
time. Today a person might </span><b><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh</span></b><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;"> yet deny that He
is God as the Bible teaches He is God. They also are giving false doctrine
because they are not presenting a <i>true Jesus</i>.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">i. The principle of
presenting a <i>true Jesus</i> is essential to the testing of
spirits. No one who presents a false Jesus, or one untrue to the Scriptures,
can be regarded as a true prophet.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">ii. Today, there is a
lot of curiosity about the “true Jesus.” Many modern academics say they want to
discover the “true Jesus” and when they say this they often mean, “The true
Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible. The Biblical Jesus is make-believe. We
need to discover the <i>true</i> Jesus behind the myths of the
Bible.”<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">iii. Not only is this
position <i>ignorant</i> (ignoring the confirmed historical validity
of the New Testament) it is also<i>arrogant</i>. Once any academic throws out
the historical evidence of the New Testament and other reliable ancient
writings, they can only base their understanding of Jesus on their <i>own
personal opinion</i>. These academics present their <i>baseless
opinions </i>as if they were <i>scholarly facts.<u1:p></u1:p></i><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">c. </span><b><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">This is the spirit of
the Antichrist</span></b><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">: To deny the true Jesus is the basis of the </span><b><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">spirit of the
Antichrist</span></b><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">, which John has already mentioned in 1 John 2:18-23. It is the
spirit which both <i>opposes</i> the true Jesus and offers a <i>substitute</i> Jesus.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">i. The devil doesn’t
care at all if you know Jesus or love Jesus or pray to Jesus – as long as it is
a <i>false</i> Jesus, a<i>make-believe</i> Jesus, a Jesus who is
not there, and who therefore <i>cannot save.</i><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">d. </span><b><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">Is now already in the
world</span></b><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">:
Though it will have its ultimate consummation in an end-times political and
economic ruler, the essence of this antichrist </span><b><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;">spirit</span></b><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13.5pt;"> is present with us
today. It is found everywhere a false Jesus is promoted in place of the true
Jesus of the Bible.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1195845373057398611.post-64832032955342596302012-05-21T23:40:00.003-07:002012-07-07T02:09:16.992-07:00Jesus Culture : A Concert of Idolatry<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjq-23VwjLZlKk2716wp0HdUyjYNCgXmPEiBs9J2h8WEQ2SD9PI58f2mQR31Esh-i4diFD6aei3ZlUa5Nr1MhiHCGgvzWH405Sq42bdILusi1JyeeIJPRSGgrWjXB_1cstoiyyPrRi1IFgB/s1600/idolatry.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjq-23VwjLZlKk2716wp0HdUyjYNCgXmPEiBs9J2h8WEQ2SD9PI58f2mQR31Esh-i4diFD6aei3ZlUa5Nr1MhiHCGgvzWH405Sq42bdILusi1JyeeIJPRSGgrWjXB_1cstoiyyPrRi1IFgB/s640/idolatry.jpg" width="535" /></a></div>
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After a strange experience with an erratic Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry student who baby-sat his children, Bart McCurdy of Cottonwood decided to find out for himself what was going on at Bethel.</div>
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McCurdy said he attended a Friday night service at the church, during which he saw people painting on stage, dancing and flailing around on the ground. He found their worship music unconventional when one line of the same song was played for at least 11 minutes, he said.</div>
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McCurdy said the repetitive music, dancing, painting and excessive stimuli serve to get people worked up into an emotional frenzy where they're expecting to see miraculous things.</div>
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"They come looking for that feel-good feeling, that high, for supposed miracles, supposed signs and wonders, speaking in tongues, gold dust, diamonds, feathers. ... It seems like they're just ready for it," he said.</div>
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Once, as she ran through her house frantically searching for her journals, the baby sitter told McCurdy the anti-Christ was in her house and Jesus was in hell saving people, he said. Shortly after that, she went into a trancelike state and said she felt 20 feet tall before losing consciousness, he said. The behavior made him believe she was demon-possessed, he said.</div>
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McCurdy said he regularly downloads podcasts of Bethel messages and hasn't heard the Christian gospel message taught at Bethel. His Web site, <a href="http://www.heraldingtruth.com/" style="border: 0px; color: #65862a; font-size: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">www.heraldingtruth.com</a>, is to educate people on what he believes are false teachings and challenge those involved in the movement, he said.</div>
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"I see Bethel and those in this movement as idolaters," he said. "They worship the 'gifts' or the signs and wonders, rather than the creator, or the savior."</div>
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Read <a href="http://www.redding.com/news/2010/jan/19/bethels-signs-and-wonders-include-angel-feathers/">FULL ARTICLE</a></div>
</div>Followers of Christhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17419889832228500583noreply@blogger.com